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Sedans Hyundai Sonata 2011 Hyundai Sonata
127 messages, Last post on Nov 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM
You are in the Hyundai Sonata Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: dodgeman07 (Nov 07, 2009 8:47 pm) EPA rating. Everyone who reads a sticker price on a new car sees that, and it also says actual mpg will vary for different drivers, and in real world that is what happens. As I mentioned before there are so many factors that affect MPG its not possible for everyone everywhere to report the same numbers. Example would be if we both have identical Sonata"s w/ I4's, and I live and drive mainly in suburban area that is rather conjested and you live in a out of town country setting and only come to the city now and then, would we both post the same MPG? not hardly! Another case could be with you and your own car, you may drive the same path to work every day, yesterday you lucked out and hit the traffic and the signal lights just right, today however your luck ran out and that same road has a bad accident ahead of you and are creeping along stop and go for an hour or so. Would your MPG calculate the same both days? I saw a post recently on one of the Edmunds forums, the person was asking for replys to his problem it went kind of like this. My brother and I have just bought each a 2009 Sonata just alike except his has the V6 and mine has the I4, how can he consistently meet and even exceed my combined MPG?. We live and work near each other so driving conditions are basically equal. I don't know what the answers are for that question but I could go back and looked if I was interested. This is not posted as an argument for or against either type engine, only sharing information, and a lot of it is opinion and opinions are like a "BUTT" everybody has one. The deal about the loaded trailer was meant to show that the 4cylinder is lugging around just about the same weight as the V6. That weight difference would be a huge factor on a NASCAR vehicle, I don't know if that is the same case with a family sedan, just the drivers weights could be several hundred pounds different. So the idea of the 4cylinder being a few pounds lighter and making a big difference in MPG sounds like a theory to me, unless everyone's car carry's exactly the same weight there will be a difference. IMO why would Hyundai need or want to play follow the leader anymore, both of their new engines were designed and built here in the US at the Hyundai plant in Alabama not over seas, their dependability is already proven and the mpg is just as good or better than most compeditors in the class. If BMW or Mercedes or whoever needs to change their drive trane to keep up with Hyundai, well so be it. Could you fill me in on "the I4's improve the dynamic responses"in what area and compared to what? All info is welcomed. Just a little note, one of the reasons I bought the new V6 is, it has a timing chain not a belt like a lot of other engines, the stupid belt can be very unhealthy for the engine traveling at 70MPH. Changing the belt at correct intervauls is kind of an expensive add on.
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 08, 2009 5:42 pm) ------------------------------------------ Without getting into details, weight distribution is the key. Cars with better weight distribution handle and brake better and are more agile than "nose heavy" cars. V6 engines put too much weight over the front axle in mid-size car, FWD applications; often placing 100 plus pounds of additional weight right where it's not wanted. The U.S. market is the only one in the world that still sells V6 engines in this segment. This segment being mid-size passenger cars or the "C/D segment" as the auto industry call it. That will change over the next few years and by 2013, the V6 will be all but gone because it's rarely needed in cars this size. Modern I4 engines, some with turbos, will be the dominant engine in most passenger cars soon. Many of these engines will push 250HP in their HO variations and not all I4 have timing belts, many have chains. V6s will still be around for a few years in the mid-size class. There will be plenty of options for the time being. Even Hyundai could drop a V6 in the Sonata for 2012 if demand warrants it. People who have the need for the bigger engine can get one. The issue is, most people don't need the V6 - that's why 85% of them opt for the I4 and it's the right play if you don't drive fully loaded or tow anything regularly. Best of luck whatever car you chose. I love the look of the '11 Sonata and 200hp I4 engine will be ideal for me. I know that's not the case for everyone and we have many choices available. P.S. The EPA website also contains "Owner Reported" mpg figures.
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Replying to: dodgeman07 (Nov 08, 2009 9:01 pm) it must be only your opinion and you do have the right to that. But different than you I will get into some detail for the people who would like to have more accurate set of stats, this is a list of a few cars that compare to the 2009 Sonata in the as you put it "mid-size passenger cars FWD applications" All below are 2009 models. abbreviation s/s is for EPA rated smaller than Sonata malibu v6 s/s altima v6 s/s camry v6 s/s mazda6 v6 s/s fusion v6 s/s cadillac sts, cts v6 s/s lincoln mkz v6 s/s acura tl v6 s/s lexus gs 350 v6 s/s lexus ls 60dh v8 s/s audi a6 Quattro v8 s/s audi a8 v8 s/s mercedes benz e-550 v8 s/s a few that are rated large like sonata but very close to total interior volume size accord v6 jaguar X v8 infiniti m35 v6 azera v6 genesis v8 next is a couple of sedans that fall a little short of the midsize class BMW M3 v8 COMPACT VW CC v6 COMPACT Some of these above listed cars come in FWD,RWD and AWD. As for as the weight distribution being the key to handle better (opinion only) I rather the v6, the breaking 0-60 skid pad test did not differentiate between the I4 or the V6. The I4 and the V6 Sonata are exactly the same size and same curb to curb turning radius so how can 1 be more agile than the other, also the I4 is a long way behind on the get up and go. I would like to sit on top of a lot more HP and not ever use it than not have it if it's really needed, I'm more than willing to give up a mpg or so. The 85% that opt for the I4 may be because 85% of the Sonatas built or I4's and after all V6 trims are sold what else is the choice. How do you know that if more were built they wouldn't be bought. It costs the car makers less to make an I4 so it's on the market costing less, if they were exactly the same price would any of the I4 lovers jump over? What does the survey say about that? You know it's really not an issue about need for the v-6 it's more of a want, same goes for the I4 you don't need a 200HP 4 cylinder or a 250HP 4 cylinder turbo just as you don't need the same HP rated V6!!!! right. So when all the big V6"s and V8's are replaced with the I4 200-250 hp you are about where you now, what will replace the I4, a peddle car, good luck with that! I will agree on one thing, your right the 2011 looks good. Same goes for everyone out there hopefully the car you buy is what you really want, because your stuck with it a while just like me. We do like ours so far. P.S. and the "real world mpg forum" is right here on Edmunds.
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 11, 2009 10:13 pm) Agility is not just about the dimensions of the car and turning radius. Weight and weight distribution also play a role, as do other factors such as tire/rim size and suspension tuning (not all Sonatas are alike there). It's great you love your V6. Personally I think I4s are fine for this class of vehicle. I agree that no one "needs" a 200 hp I4 in this kind of car either. I'd rather have 160 hp or so with a boost in FE than 200 hp. One advantage of an I4 compared to a V6 (in particular the V6 on the Sonata): have you compared the prices on servicing those two engines? From what I've read, oil changes cost more for the V6. But the biggie is any service that requires access to the back bank of cylinders, e.g. spark plug change. The car shouldn't need that kind of service very often, but I'd rather pay less for service over a car's lifetime than more.
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 11, 2009 10:13 pm) "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." |
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Replying to: backy (Nov 12, 2009 7:23 am) differences and likes or dislikes of cars. The list of cars in the earlier post was to show that all those car makers still offer the V6 and V8's in their 2009 and 2010 models. Some of them don't offer a 4 cyl. in their car line at all. If there is no market for more HP why do they continue to add HP to all their engines including the 4 cylinder. I f the smaller I4 is so good, decreasing the HP should make it even better and more desirable right? How about a 2 cylinder that would be the ultimate wouldn't it! "I can't wait" Just because Hyundai USA only makes 15-20% of the Sonatas w/ the V6 doesn't absolutely mean that it will revolutionize the auto industry. The 4 cylinder cost less to produce so it is cheaper, good for the people that want a good dependable car at a good price, but if it were the same price would the V6 get anymore attention? At a couple of thousand dollars cheaper I bet it would look a whole lot better to quite a few people. Like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. The assessment on the suspension being different on some Sonatas is correct and the weight distribution is also important. A little more weight on the drive axle will create better traction, compare a FWD to a RWD and see which one you can spin the tires on easier, or make a turn to fast in the rain or snow and watch where your ass end goes! The idea to put the engine on top of the drive axle in the front wasn't to allow you to put more in the trunk. Would a little more weight (100# are so) make a major dynamic difference? If it had anything to do with adverse effects on handling or safety why don't they put the engine in the back? How well did that work out for the old VW and the Chevy Corvair? not so well it seems. Where is the engine in a NASCAR racing machine? handles the speed and track pretty good it looks like. It,s not that I love the V6 in my Sonata it,s more about not liking the I4! If I had the choice it would be a V8 like the Genesis, but 250hp plus or minus with the 3.3L is good enough for me. To each his own! P.S. I have owned 4 different 4 cylinder vehicles in the past, "I have been there"
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 12, 2009 7:39 pm) the tires on easier... I have. You can spin both pretty easily in slippery conditions, without the benefit of traction control. In fact, the more power/torque you have, the easier it is to spin the drive wheels no matter if it's RWD or FWD. If you are asking me which car handles better, e.g. a 3 Series (RWD) or an Elantra (about the same size, FWD), that's a pretty easy question to answer. And which car has close to 50/50 weight distribution? Why not put the engine in the back? Weight distribution, remember? And actually, the idea of putting the engine over the front drive wheels was ALL about space utilization, not about creating a better-handling car. Where are the drive wheels on a NASCAR racer--in the front or back? I read a comparo the other day about 3 sedans with over 500 hp each. The slowest ran 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. Save your money, and someday one of those could be yours! 
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Replying to: backy (Nov 12, 2009 7:51 pm) spinning the wheels in a slippery condition you can do that w/ a bicycle. Brilliant deduction on more HP/torque easier to spin the wheels, that puts us back to the more HP versus the lack of. I didn't say anything about a 3 series or Elantra I think you brought those two cars up yourself for some reason, I won't comment one way or the other on either, since I have no experience w/ those, I don't buy cars in that class so my interest is in what I have and what they compare to not the Elantra, I'll take your word about those type cars, anyway this is centered around the Sonata topic, Elantra does not fit here. I think, Sonata only comes in front wheel drive and the I4 Sonata and the V6 Sonata is the topic. I do remember about the weight distribution thing, that is why the engine still sits in the front evidently, and where is the "engine" in the NASCAR? If the weight distribution would be a major player why did all the drive trane weight move to the front drive axles (including the transmission). that also reduces rear wheel weight. Someone made the statement recently about "nose heavy" creating some kind of issue like braking and handeling. The FWD has become a standard in the midsize class on the American market for a lot of years, it must be working pretty good. Now if the arm chair auto "engineers" have what they think is an improvement in the "dynamics" of FWD please contact a major auto maker, maybe!!!! we could all benefit from your expert thechnology, who knows you may get a large reward or a high paying job out of it, and if you could pull yourself away from your busy engineering schedule and let Hyundai know about this they can really make the 2011 I4 a much better car. You know the Noble prize may be in order, WOW!!! Your comment about my finances don't belong here, and how did you become an expert on that issue too? It would take a genius w/ some kind of physic powers, since I don't really know you I guess I'll have to take your word there too! I already know about the over 500 HP 0-60 stats, the CTS VDI 6.2l and is probably the fastest production model in it's class (midsize luxery sedan)  3.7 0-60 and the price is some where in the $60,000+ range, and why would I know this off the top of my head, and I can assure you unlike some people I'm not a rocket scientest or a auto engineer w/ ESP!!! Now get your new found brain storm idea about FWD to the car industry so it can be incorparated in the neww 2011 cars. Hope you and everyone reading these posts have pleasant day!!!!!!!
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 13, 2009 6:48 am) ------------------------------------------------------------ I have worked as an engineer for two major suppliers to the auto-industry. Lear Corporation and NSK Bearing. I'm currently laid-off and pursuing an MBA full-time in hopes of leaving manufacturing for the "second half" of my career. The next generation of mid-size cars will be launched by major automakers around the world from 2011 through 2014. Hold onto your hats - they will have better quality, be more efficient and safer than anything we've seen. I think you'll be surprised by what's coming our way. This discussion started with regard to Hyundai not offering a V6 option in the 2011 Sonata. Sometimes you have to "agree to disagree". Another old saying goes something like this, "I can't always say yes, but I can say no obligingly." |
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 13, 2009 6:48 am)  If you don't understand why automakers went to FWD (space utilization, not performance or handling) in the mid-sized family car class and other cars that are not luxury cars or performance-oriented cars, I don't have the time to educate you. (And I doubt you'd pay any attention to what I have to say on it.) But there is a lot of info on this subject on the Web, if you are interested in learning more. BTW, NASCAR race cars don't fit here, this is about the Sonata.  Comments about "have a pleasant day" aside, I can see you are not interested in a civil and respectful discussion here, but just taking shots at people because they have a different opinion than you do, so... have fun posting to yourself! And, have a great day also!
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