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Sedans Hyundai Sonata 2011 Hyundai Sonata
127 messages, Last post on Nov 13, 2009 at 2:44 PM
You are in the Hyundai Sonata Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: dodgeman07 (Nov 08, 2009 9:01 pm) it must be only your opinion and you do have the right to that. But different than you I will get into some detail for the people who would like to have more accurate set of stats, this is a list of a few cars that compare to the 2009 Sonata in the as you put it "mid-size passenger cars FWD applications" All below are 2009 models. abbreviation s/s is for EPA rated smaller than Sonata malibu v6 s/s altima v6 s/s camry v6 s/s mazda6 v6 s/s fusion v6 s/s cadillac sts, cts v6 s/s lincoln mkz v6 s/s acura tl v6 s/s lexus gs 350 v6 s/s lexus ls 60dh v8 s/s audi a6 Quattro v8 s/s audi a8 v8 s/s mercedes benz e-550 v8 s/s a few that are rated large like sonata but very close to total interior volume size accord v6 jaguar X v8 infiniti m35 v6 azera v6 genesis v8 next is a couple of sedans that fall a little short of the midsize class BMW M3 v8 COMPACT VW CC v6 COMPACT Some of these above listed cars come in FWD,RWD and AWD. As for as the weight distribution being the key to handle better (opinion only) I rather the v6, the breaking 0-60 skid pad test did not differentiate between the I4 or the V6. The I4 and the V6 Sonata are exactly the same size and same curb to curb turning radius so how can 1 be more agile than the other, also the I4 is a long way behind on the get up and go. I would like to sit on top of a lot more HP and not ever use it than not have it if it's really needed, I'm more than willing to give up a mpg or so. The 85% that opt for the I4 may be because 85% of the Sonatas built or I4's and after all V6 trims are sold what else is the choice. How do you know that if more were built they wouldn't be bought. It costs the car makers less to make an I4 so it's on the market costing less, if they were exactly the same price would any of the I4 lovers jump over? What does the survey say about that? You know it's really not an issue about need for the v-6 it's more of a want, same goes for the I4 you don't need a 200HP 4 cylinder or a 250HP 4 cylinder turbo just as you don't need the same HP rated V6!!!! right. So when all the big V6"s and V8's are replaced with the I4 200-250 hp you are about where you now, what will replace the I4, a peddle car, good luck with that! I will agree on one thing, your right the 2011 looks good. Same goes for everyone out there hopefully the car you buy is what you really want, because your stuck with it a while just like me. We do like ours so far. P.S. and the "real world mpg forum" is right here on Edmunds.
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 11, 2009 10:13 pm) Agility is not just about the dimensions of the car and turning radius. Weight and weight distribution also play a role, as do other factors such as tire/rim size and suspension tuning (not all Sonatas are alike there). It's great you love your V6. Personally I think I4s are fine for this class of vehicle. I agree that no one "needs" a 200 hp I4 in this kind of car either. I'd rather have 160 hp or so with a boost in FE than 200 hp. One advantage of an I4 compared to a V6 (in particular the V6 on the Sonata): have you compared the prices on servicing those two engines? From what I've read, oil changes cost more for the V6. But the biggie is any service that requires access to the back bank of cylinders, e.g. spark plug change. The car shouldn't need that kind of service very often, but I'd rather pay less for service over a car's lifetime than more.
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 11, 2009 10:13 pm) "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." |
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Replying to: backy (Nov 12, 2009 7:23 am) differences and likes or dislikes of cars. The list of cars in the earlier post was to show that all those car makers still offer the V6 and V8's in their 2009 and 2010 models. Some of them don't offer a 4 cyl. in their car line at all. If there is no market for more HP why do they continue to add HP to all their engines including the 4 cylinder. I f the smaller I4 is so good, decreasing the HP should make it even better and more desirable right? How about a 2 cylinder that would be the ultimate wouldn't it! "I can't wait" Just because Hyundai USA only makes 15-20% of the Sonatas w/ the V6 doesn't absolutely mean that it will revolutionize the auto industry. The 4 cylinder cost less to produce so it is cheaper, good for the people that want a good dependable car at a good price, but if it were the same price would the V6 get anymore attention? At a couple of thousand dollars cheaper I bet it would look a whole lot better to quite a few people. Like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. The assessment on the suspension being different on some Sonatas is correct and the weight distribution is also important. A little more weight on the drive axle will create better traction, compare a FWD to a RWD and see which one you can spin the tires on easier, or make a turn to fast in the rain or snow and watch where your ass end goes! The idea to put the engine on top of the drive axle in the front wasn't to allow you to put more in the trunk. Would a little more weight (100# are so) make a major dynamic difference? If it had anything to do with adverse effects on handling or safety why don't they put the engine in the back? How well did that work out for the old VW and the Chevy Corvair? not so well it seems. Where is the engine in a NASCAR racing machine? handles the speed and track pretty good it looks like. It,s not that I love the V6 in my Sonata it,s more about not liking the I4! If I had the choice it would be a V8 like the Genesis, but 250hp plus or minus with the 3.3L is good enough for me. To each his own! P.S. I have owned 4 different 4 cylinder vehicles in the past, "I have been there"
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 12, 2009 7:39 pm) the tires on easier... I have. You can spin both pretty easily in slippery conditions, without the benefit of traction control. In fact, the more power/torque you have, the easier it is to spin the drive wheels no matter if it's RWD or FWD. If you are asking me which car handles better, e.g. a 3 Series (RWD) or an Elantra (about the same size, FWD), that's a pretty easy question to answer. And which car has close to 50/50 weight distribution? Why not put the engine in the back? Weight distribution, remember? And actually, the idea of putting the engine over the front drive wheels was ALL about space utilization, not about creating a better-handling car. Where are the drive wheels on a NASCAR racer--in the front or back? I read a comparo the other day about 3 sedans with over 500 hp each. The slowest ran 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. Save your money, and someday one of those could be yours! 
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Replying to: backy (Nov 12, 2009 7:51 pm) spinning the wheels in a slippery condition you can do that w/ a bicycle. Brilliant deduction on more HP/torque easier to spin the wheels, that puts us back to the more HP versus the lack of. I didn't say anything about a 3 series or Elantra I think you brought those two cars up yourself for some reason, I won't comment one way or the other on either, since I have no experience w/ those, I don't buy cars in that class so my interest is in what I have and what they compare to not the Elantra, I'll take your word about those type cars, anyway this is centered around the Sonata topic, Elantra does not fit here. I think, Sonata only comes in front wheel drive and the I4 Sonata and the V6 Sonata is the topic. I do remember about the weight distribution thing, that is why the engine still sits in the front evidently, and where is the "engine" in the NASCAR? If the weight distribution would be a major player why did all the drive trane weight move to the front drive axles (including the transmission). that also reduces rear wheel weight. Someone made the statement recently about "nose heavy" creating some kind of issue like braking and handeling. The FWD has become a standard in the midsize class on the American market for a lot of years, it must be working pretty good. Now if the arm chair auto "engineers" have what they think is an improvement in the "dynamics" of FWD please contact a major auto maker, maybe!!!! we could all benefit from your expert thechnology, who knows you may get a large reward or a high paying job out of it, and if you could pull yourself away from your busy engineering schedule and let Hyundai know about this they can really make the 2011 I4 a much better car. You know the Noble prize may be in order, WOW!!! Your comment about my finances don't belong here, and how did you become an expert on that issue too? It would take a genius w/ some kind of physic powers, since I don't really know you I guess I'll have to take your word there too! I already know about the over 500 HP 0-60 stats, the CTS VDI 6.2l and is probably the fastest production model in it's class (midsize luxery sedan)  3.7 0-60 and the price is some where in the $60,000+ range, and why would I know this off the top of my head, and I can assure you unlike some people I'm not a rocket scientest or a auto engineer w/ ESP!!! Now get your new found brain storm idea about FWD to the car industry so it can be incorparated in the neww 2011 cars. Hope you and everyone reading these posts have pleasant day!!!!!!!
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 13, 2009 6:48 am) ------------------------------------------------------------ I have worked as an engineer for two major suppliers to the auto-industry. Lear Corporation and NSK Bearing. I'm currently laid-off and pursuing an MBA full-time in hopes of leaving manufacturing for the "second half" of my career. The next generation of mid-size cars will be launched by major automakers around the world from 2011 through 2014. Hold onto your hats - they will have better quality, be more efficient and safer than anything we've seen. I think you'll be surprised by what's coming our way. This discussion started with regard to Hyundai not offering a V6 option in the 2011 Sonata. Sometimes you have to "agree to disagree". Another old saying goes something like this, "I can't always say yes, but I can say no obligingly." |
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Replying to: 8babies1dog (Nov 13, 2009 6:48 am)  If you don't understand why automakers went to FWD (space utilization, not performance or handling) in the mid-sized family car class and other cars that are not luxury cars or performance-oriented cars, I don't have the time to educate you. (And I doubt you'd pay any attention to what I have to say on it.) But there is a lot of info on this subject on the Web, if you are interested in learning more. BTW, NASCAR race cars don't fit here, this is about the Sonata.  Comments about "have a pleasant day" aside, I can see you are not interested in a civil and respectful discussion here, but just taking shots at people because they have a different opinion than you do, so... have fun posting to yourself! And, have a great day also!
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Why do all internet forums get reduced to passive aggressive pissing matches?
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Replying to: backy (Nov 13, 2009 7:47 am) part about maybe loosing some control on the turn on the wet road. I have an opinion on the (space utilization thing) may not be the same as yours or anyone else,s just an opinion. What I don't quite understand is the engine has pretty much been in the front of vehicles since they started mass producing them a long time ago. Several attempts were made to use a rear engine type car but didn't work out to well but at least it may have justified the reason to keep it in the front. With the majority of the drive trane being toward the front half of the car it is probably front heavy to start with. The drive shaft and the differential extending to the rear wheels did put a little weight toward the back end, the fuel tank in the back did also, giving a bit of weight distribution. Now to achieve (space utilization) every pound of the entire drive trane shifts to the engine compartment right over the FWD axle. But nothing was added to the rear end to compensate for the weight loss that went to the front. A good job at space utilization but all the weight distribution went 100% in the frontal area. What they did is easy to see but why did all the carmakers decide to do the same thing, It could be an engineering theory, does it accomplish what it was done for, all we can do is buy whats out there that meets our individual prefferances and hope what they do will improve the industry for everyone. On a personal note I apologize for any comment I made that may have caused hard feeling I guess I just got carried away and put us in the totally wrong direction . This is not my norm, I have just been put on a very strict diet by the VA and I think they are trying to make me loose about 200 lbs ( that is what I weigh) so I may be in a lot of trouble pretty soon so you may not be hearing me rum my head much longer. Thanks for being so patient with the elderly! sincerely: have a good day!!!!! |
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