Last post on Sep 19, 2009 at 7:00 PM
You are in the Nissan 350Z/370Z
What is this discussion about?
Ford Mustang, Nissan 370Z, Coupe
2010 Ford Mustang GT vs. 2009 Nissan 370Z - Go ahead; pick a car, any car. Both of them will reach 60 mph in 5.2 seconds (4.9 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip). (more)
#13 of 22 Re: 2010 Mustang GT Premium with track package Vs GT with 3.73 gear package? [jmaroun]
Aug 17, 2009 (6:20 am)
This is the wrong thread for your question. It probably should be in the 2005+ thread. With that said, performance packages aside, there is no difference in performance between the base GT and the Premium. However, add in the Track Pack, and according to reviewers, there is a significant difference handling-wise. Because of the additional chassis bracing and suspension bits, the Track Pack might have a slight advantage in straight line performance since less energy is wasted trying to rock the car back on its rear suspension (read: lifting the front end.)
Now on to the meat of what you're saying... The "more electronics means more stuff to go wrong" is a tired, old song. It is seldom that something goes wrong with those electronics. Sure, you have the fidgety types who have to constantly be changing stations/disks/songs and/or the volume. Those are the ones that you will see complaining about paint coming off buttons and knobs. Simply avoiding fidgeting so much and keeping your hands clean will remedy that issue. It seems more likely that you just want to pinch pennies here. I can hardly imagine you actually have gripes about the stuff you mentioned. And I definitely can't believe you actually like holding that nasty rubber steering wheel over the leather.
If you really want to forgo all the goodies and get a stripper GT yet have the performance of the Premium w/ Track Pack, go aftermarket. Get yourself some springs from Eibach, some nice chassis bracing parts from BMR, and a good set of performance tires and you'll be all set. Problem is, all in, you will more than likely end up spending the same or more and not have any of that warrantied and still not have all the niceties of the Premium. The advantage? You won't be paying for all that stuff over the life of your auto loan. The disadvantage? You won't get your money back at resale time unless you find a private buyer who can appreciate the changes you've made.
Bottom line; I think you already have your mind made up to get a base GT. That's still not a bad thing. Hey, 80% of the fun in owning a Mustang is in modding it. Right?
#14 of 22 Proud to buy American. 2010 Mustang GT!
Aug 18, 2009 (1:00 pm)
First, I'd like to thank tayl0rd and 2006vr6 for their comments to my question. They were helpful in my decision process. I think this is relavent place for my posts, referenced to the article, since that article played a part in my buying process and considerations. (for instance the way the car was set up in the comparison test played a role which is kinda related to my question about the 3.73 ratio option versus the track option. Also, I'd like to offer my impressions.. After buying the car yesterday and to compare it to my present car (one that probably sets the bar in terms of performance/handling at the higher end of this price category).
I did go with a black 2010 Mustang GT, manual with one option, the 3.73 axle option. That famous ratio goes way back and belongs on that car, for those who don't mind higher crusing rpm. I got it nearly stock with the minimal performance upgrade, mainly because for me, "goodies" usually distract and cost more than what I think they're worth. (MyLite option for example). Yes, the track pack only costs $1450 but it requires GT Premium which bumps the price up two more grand. Also, getting a car with only these two options require at least an 8 week special order cause you're not gonna find it. The closest available configuration today usually come heavily optioned with additional Comfort/Security/HID costs and wot not. So that takes the sticker to near or north of 35k! For a Mustang?
Besides, I really do prefer, not like, the stock steering wheel over the Premium one, believe it or not. I decided the track option just wasn't enough nor could it every be. There simply is no mod for the Mustang that will turn it into a proper road carving machine. And that's OK with me. Why try so hard to make a car into what it's not and end up paying nearly as much for a car designed to be that way from the start. Nahh..I'll enjoy this babe for what it is..A true blue 100% American Muscle car and I can honestly tell you..I'm loving it.
Yes, this Mustang impresses me. That's not easy to do, especially coming from a manual 2008 335i with sports package. I have to sell it suddenly (and its not for financial reasons). So, I've decided to take this opportunity to wait for the new incarnation of the 3 series which should come out in 2-3 years. In the meantime, I figured I'd ride out this worrisome economy and get a cheaper alternative to hold me down. But two weeks ago, I had no clue what that alternative might be. Since then, I've test driven many new and used sporty cars, within roughly a 15-30k price range. All in the, seemingly impossible, hopes of finding some car that could serve as a least depressing temporary replacement for my 335.. You name it, I drove a whole bunch of 4,6,&8 bangers offered today and some used cars too: As for the Mazdaspeed3, Civic Si ... Of these, I found the Si the best package despite its anemic hp and torque levels. I checked out some 6'ers too..like the Altima, Accord..even the G37 and a 350Z. I even test drove a used 2006 911S which I wanted so bad but even with it's low $50k tag just didn't make sense in this economy. As for 8cyl..I test drove a used M5 which was lovely but quite old and I felt it would be a costly liability. I also test drove some used Mustangs. The 2010 Camaro was exciting to look at. They wouldn't let me test drive it. My excitement soon dissipated however after further inspection. It'll make for a nice collectable car more so than a practical every day vehicle IMO. One car I did not test drive due to lack of time unfortunately, was the new Genisis. I actually think that car could have also served my purposes but oh well. The 370Z's 45k sticker was on par with my 335i, of which puts it outta my current considerations. It's priced at BMW levels and probably for good reason however I'd prefer the German styling and probably also the German performance delivery. I base alot of this on a test drive of a used 350Z. They wouldn't let me test drive the 370Z which was on display. Also, I really don't like the new Z's exterior and it's interior which are too flashy for me.
I like a car in it's simplest form, but not simpler. I like to explore and enjoy what the heart of a car has to offer and not be distracted by gagetry which often burden the car with problems and weigh it down. Don't get me wrong, I still need simple things like AC, cruise control, ABS, a nice radio with CD player and power windows..but not much more.
It's obvious and I accept the fact, the 2010 Mustang, in any form, will never carve like a 335 nor feel as tight and refined as a 350/370Z. And I'll surely miss the 335i but I can tell you, it became immediately apparant after the test drive and the drive home, this Mustang brings a new kind of happiness that I'd argue is, in many respects, on equal footing with the 3. In one respect, the stang is superior. You know what that is
I may just keep this car for longer than I've planned.
#15 of 22 Enjoy your Stang
Aug 18, 2009 (9:02 pm)
Hi Joseph - congrats on your new ride! I recommend breaking her in correctly. Give your owners manual a read. You'll find the engine at 45K stronger as long as you keep up with the routine maintenance and don't run her all the time : -) It does take some restraint - not sure what manual says - but it used to be 1K miles. Got to say-I've used this and believe I had stronger engines and longer lasting brakes and rotors. 2010 Stang is a handsome car. Must say I loved mine. A lot of fond memories. May you enjoy your ride and add some fillies to your coral. Just remind her from time to time that she is your real gal Treat her to high test w/ some octane booster from time to time. Cover her with liquid glass - paint, chrome, & glass only. Been the best for years and still is. Wouldn't steer you wrong. Remember to not use on unpainted lower sides and bottom bumper/diffuser. Enjoy!! Much better to sit a little high in the saddle and be able to lower your window and rest your arm on the sill than to feel like you're sitting in a bath tub a-la Z.
#16 of 22 Improving 2010 Mustang GT's handling.
Aug 20, 2009 (10:41 pm)
Ok, It's been two days..I love this car (GT)..and I'm ready for mods
Thank you 2006vr6 for your wise advice. But right now, I'm ready for you, taylord and/or anyone else to point me in a correct direction. I want to improve this car's handling but want to keep it under warranty. I've already paid for Ford's 6yr premium bumper to bumper warranty, 6yr 100k maintenance as well as, gap coverage so I don't want these voided. (I got a really good price) I'm willing to drop $2k-3k maybe even $5k for mods that will significantly transform this car's handling. Is there also a way to increase steering weight/feel? I don't expect BMW level carving ability..just real and signficant improvements. I know, the track pack would have done alot of this for me..but I really do not want leather and all that extra plastic gadgetry that comes with Premium. For me, the car just feels cleaner stock.
After driving the car for two days, I believe that it has so much potential. If only it could be made more precise, or if it had a significantly tighter suspenssion. Initial throttle response needs refinement as well. I already got the 3.73 ratio package as you know. I don't want to alter her essense or weigh her down. I love her as she is..it's just I want tasteful upgrades to her suspension in the goals of getting sharper and tighter handling.
What can I expect in terms of improvements. How much will it cost? Where do I go to learn more and get this stuff? Can I keep it all under waranty? Is there a way for me to test drive a car with these mods before committing.. so I can see how it will be like. I realize this may be the wrong forum room..Please point me to the right one if so. Sorry for crashing your party. I'd appreciate any advice.
Thanks ya'll..I think I got Stang fever
#17 of 22 Re: Improving 2010 Mustang GT's handling. [jmaroun]
Aug 21, 2009 (5:43 am)
Start with looking at www.fordracingparts.com. They have two suspension/handling kits for $1335.00. One has 1.5" drop a la Shelby GT while the other is for a 1" drop.
Real good place to start. Also there are more aftermarket pro tuners out there for the Stang than any other vehicle in the market place! Shelby, Rousch, Saleen (back in), Brown, etc. Have fun with your new ride.
#18 of 22 Re: Improving 2010 Mustang GT's handling. [jmaroun]
Aug 25, 2009 (10:28 am)
You'll want to trim some weight in addition to some good chassis and suspension bits. Here's a list of some stuff I had and was planning to get when I had mine:
Dual friction clutch
Electric water pump
Tubular subframe connectors
Rear tunnel brace
1.5" lowering springs
Was gonna get:
Aluminum or carbon fiber driveshaft
Transmission support bar
Light Metal Clutch
Boxed subframe connectors
Larger anti-roll bars
As you can see, some of that is for weight reduction and some is directly related to handling. I went for the weight reduction stuff to get more peppy off-the-line response. The electric water pump really made a noticeable difference. There's a TON of stuff you can do. (No pun intended.)
#19 of 22 2010 Mustang GT with M-2005-FR3 Handling Package
Sep 17, 2009 (10:36 am)
I went with 2006vr6's advice. M-2005-FR3 from fordracingparts.
This is my first mod for my GT:
Together with the 3.73 rear axle ratio package which I got from the factory; this suspension setup is similar but a bit tighter and a touch lower than the track package available only with the Premium GT. The FR3 package is costing me $2100 out the door (incl. tax/parts/labor) & that includes rental car for the day. I'm much happier doing it this way with stock GT, instead of GT Premium, as I save at about $3k, also get a less complicated/lighter car (I'm guessing maybe 100-200 lbs). The track pack does come with 19" and really good tires though but they probably weigh more than 18's, and have different front/back sizes..meaning you can't rotate which will cost alot to more frequently replace. I think I'll stick with 18's and get better tires when these are done.
Taylord, I thought over your suggested modification list. I may incrementally do some of that stuff down the line. I really like the electric water pump idea and also stuff like the aluminum flywheel.
Right now, I'm thinking about how to upgrade the radio/speaker system which is the basic stock one (not Shaker 500). Shaker500 didn't sound too impressive at the dealership so I'd appreciate any other options you'd recommend that wont void too much of my warranty
Stock clutch and shifter are good, but I wish the shifter was designed for faster shifts.
FR3 is getting installed as I type and I'll pick the car up in a few hours
I requested the most aggressive setting as I feel the car seriously needs tightening up and the advisor said the ride will still be good for the street. I considered an adjustable panhardbar/&UCA/LCA..but since I wont be seriously racing..I don't think I'll get significant improvement in street or occassional track performance.
I'll post my impression in a couple days as there are only precious few available on the net. I wonder how well my car would fare with this settup, in the comparison test Vs 370Z. I'm sure that once I get high performance tires (which can be rotated), I'll be in good shape.
2010 Mustang GT
- 3.73 axle package (with updated brakes and stability software upgrade)
- M-2005-FR3 Handling Package
#20 of 22 Re: 2010 Mustang GT with M-2005-FR3 Handling Package [jmaroun]
Sep 18, 2009 (9:17 am)
So the FR3 package is actually separate from the Track Pack? I was wondering about that. Wasn't sure if it was included in the Track Pack or not. If you want a good stereo w/o voiding the warranty, go w/ the factory Shaker1000. I had that in my '05 GT. It was really good. I listened to the Shaker500 before and it stinks. The Shaker1000 seems like a totally different system even though the only difference is the addition of the two subs in the trunk.
Definitely look into the electric water pump and the aluminum flywheel (and the LMC clutch from Centerforce). It really added some pep to my GT. The throttle response was better, along with rev speed and acceleration. I'm sure it's more a seat-of-the-pants increase than a noticeable time difference, but it's still nice. And spring for the aluminum driveshaft, too. That's at least 20 lbs. dropped off the drivetrain right there.
#21 of 22 Re: 2010 Mustang GT with M-2005-FR3 Handling Package [jmaroun]
Sep 19, 2009 (5:44 am)
Wow - Joseph you certainly didn't waste any time! Can't wait to hear your impressions on your new setup! The 373 gear set does quicken your shifts. No doubt about that. There are improved shift kits on the market. I've always liked a "T" shifter vs the ball. My elbow rests right on the center console and my hand simply rides so much better on the "T" vs a ball. I shift better with it as well. This is of course isn't recommended for real racing as you need both hands on the wheel - but most of us drive on local roads and when the "Need for Speed" hits I guess I can shift better and I'm more comfortable with the "T". The "T" can also be rotated to make it a straight handle which some folks like as well. Real low cost with a different feel.
#22 of 22 2010 Mustang GT with M-2005-FR3 Handling Package: Impressions Vs Stock
Sep 19, 2009 (7:00 pm)
M-2005-FR3 Handling Package http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=8976
The car should come stock with FR3 IMO.
I hope this helps alot of folks out there thinking of upgrading their Stang's suspension. And I can tell you, stock suspension not only sucks..I'd say it's a bit dangerous. A stock 2010 Mustang GT rides high, ridiculously high which I guess relieves any concerns about rubbing bumpers on high curbs but such a setup also seriously compromises handling. Also, if anyone out there is worried about an excessively harsh ride with the FR3 package (which seems to be a rumor on some forums), let me tell you from experience.. I got mine installed with the most aggressive settings..and I honestly think the ride is just as comfortable as stock..Infact, a bit more comfortable since now, going over speed bumps or over abrupt drive way dividers has less recoil/bounce drama. Ride height is lowered significantly but is no lower than any other sporty car and I think it has plenty of clearance. It looks a heck of alot better now too.
As for the twisties, aggressive throttle and braking manuevors, the car now stays planted and stabilizes rapidly with critical damping (meaning no under or over shoot). Major improvement which will be noticed immediately after stepping hard on the gas or brakes or while turning. Plainly, no more wobble from side to side and front to back when driven hard or going over bumps. I was a bit concerned about wheel alignment and body centering issues since she was lowered about 1.5". After inspection, I honestly see no shift and the alignment is dead on. This suspenssion system works well. In short, the FR3 handling package is an affordable and sure-bet worth getting. I'd like to recommend Dan at Irvine's Turtle-
Click Ford dealership for anyone interested in the area. He knows his stuff and will take care of you. They had all the parts and installation went flawless..plus, I got a free car wash and rental included in the price ($2100 out the door). I'm glad I drove up all the way from San Diego to get it done there.
As a side note, I'd like to compare this 2010 Mustang GT with FR3 handling package with my previous 08 335i with sports package:
Although, the stang's handling greatly improved, there basically is no real contest. To my surprise, the FR3 package is actually softer than a 335i's suspension with Sports package which comes as a standard option from BMW's factory. Yes, the 335 is actually harsh compared to the FR3. While both 335i and stang feel planted and stable, the 335i is on its toes ready and capable to change direction on the spot and to execute flawlessly with urgency. This gives a driver massive confidence and power on the road or track. The stang is significantly more hesitant to change direction or even to accelerate in a straight line. In a stang, relatively speaking, you have to think longer before a quick manuevor compared to a 335. This has to do not only with the stang's sluggish steering and softer suspenssion, but also a lazy throttle response. The 335's independent rear suspenssion enables it to bend into a turn in a way the Stang will never be able to do with its live rear. The result is that you need to let the tail out more with the stang. The stang does this well and easily, but it's an inefficient and slower way to get around a turn. Mainly, the 335i is just more responsive all round making the stang look sluggish in comparison. While a 335i screams like a bobcat, the stang roars like a bear. The stang is louder, and perhaps a touch more powerful, but its slower and less agile. I'd say that's an accurate albiet corny analogy. They are worlds appart, and the obvious is true, no amount of modifications will ever be enough to bridge the gap. Unfortunately. But, at nearly half the price, that's OK though.
I'm still having a bunch of fun with this GT. Thanks largely due to its engine grunt and roar, this Mustang offers a cool and fun driving experience. I'll hold mine for a couple years before I'll have to sell it as this economy picks up.
As for my next mod, I'll probably put my stock tires in the garage, and get Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric max performance summer tires in a couple weeks. Throttle response upgrades would be nice but the one from fordracingparts (M-FR1-MGTA) doesn't seem impressive (only 10hp improvement). I wonder how the response is improved though.
Is this package worth it? If anyone has this mod, please give me feedback. I can't risk going to other manufacturers since i don't want to void the warranty. For about $30k which is what I paid out the door including FR3 parts and installation, and with extended 6yr 100k, warranty/maintaince/gap.. I'm satisfied. At least until I find out what the next 3/M3 is gonna look like in a couple years.
2006vr6, I've never seen a T shifter..sounds strange for a stick shift. I'll check in to it.. By the way, I picked up a Roush white billiard ball shift knob which I thought would be fun in my black stang It twisted right on with no tools. It feels and looks good.