Last post on Sep 21, 2012 at 7:25 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Subaru Forester, Car Buying, Car Comparisons, Sedan, Wagon
#855 of 1296 Re: Subaru Legacy, Honda CRV or Toyota Camry? [doggrandma]
Jan 26, 2010 (7:52 am)
I've had a 2010 Outback, 4 cyl. Limited since late Oct. I have about 4,000 miles on it. We love it. Handles fine, including on ice/snow covered roads. Like the CVT tranny. While no race car, has enough power for our needs. You'll see talk on this thread about weak heat on your feet. I have noticed that. Not a big deal for me. I just let the car warm up before I turn the heat on then run it on Auto for a couple of mins. I then have to cut the fan back because it gets too warm. I wrote more detailed reveiws on this thread, nos. 626 & 632. Suggest you give those a look. BTW, my sister-in-law traded her relatively new Honda CRV for a new 2008 Forester in 12/2009. She likes the Subaru AWD system much better than the system used in the CRV. Hope this is helpful.
#856 of 1296 Re: Subaru Legacy, Honda CRV or Toyota Camry? [elena_l]
Jan 26, 2010 (9:39 am)
I think it is a little odd that you would consider two sedans along with a CRV. It seems the Accord would be a better choice to consider, but not if you are looking at the AWD option.
I have never understood the statement "tends to fishtail if throttle is lifted midturn." I have owned four Subaru vehicles aging between '96 and '10, and the only time any of them break loose is when I tell them to do so. Tires always count for a lot, but it is difficult to find a more sure-footed car. The stability control (VDC) on the Legacy (or others) will kick in if the car breaks loose, but I suspect you will find that to be a rare situation. I drive in a fairly spirited fashion on icy roads, and the VDC has yet to kick in on my '10 Forester. Granted, I have good tires on it (the OEM tires are not good tires ).
As britgeezer suggested, you will need to drive them for yourself and run them through the paces. I think you will find the Legacy to be a very stable car. I have not driven a current-gen CR-V or Camry.
#857 of 1296 Re: Subaru Legacy, Honda CRV or Toyota Camry? [elena_l]
Jan 26, 2010 (10:56 am)
The CR-V is more comparable to the Forester, right around the same size, as both are a bit shorter and more upright than the Outback.
Forester actually beat the CR-V in residual value, and won "Best Compact Utility Vehicle" from Automotive Lease Guide, the company that sets actual residuals for leases. Outback won for "Best Midsize Utility Vehicle" as well.
Subaru also won "Best Mainstream Brand", though I think Honda wasn't too far behind.
My guess is that Legacy information is a bit outdated. In 2009 a lot of used Subarus actually gained value. Here's a funny story to read:
While the overall market for model-year 2005-2008 used vehicles is down 8.5 percent this year, Subaru has shown the best performance in 2009, increasing 1.3 percent
LOL WUT?! That's right, used Subarus actually gained value. That's a better investment than my savings account by a factor of 8!
Any how, I wouldn't worry too much, if you prefer the Legacy, by all means buy that.
As for the "fishtail if throttle is lifted in midturn", aka drop throttle oversteer, this is a matter of Subaru letting its AWD act first, and only after that will it let the stability/traction control kick in and interfere.
It's a philosophy of AWD coming first. This actually helps in loose surfaces (snow, gravel) where some wheelspin is desired.
We own a Forester and a Sienna (same powertrian and based on that Camry). When it snows, the Forester hardly notices. The Sienna can barely make it up our driveway. The VSC on that van is so hyper-active that it retards whatever momentum I have and at times the vehicle stops moving forward. Safe? Sure, I guess. Not very practical, though. It actually performs better with the VSC off. That allows someone wheelspin and forward progress.
On slippery surfaces it is NO contest.
The Sienna is fine everywhere else, but if it's snowing we take the Forester, without question, there's just no comparison whatsoever.
#858 of 1296 Re: Subaru Legacy, Honda CRV or Toyota Camry? [elena_l]
Jan 26, 2010 (4:26 pm)
The CRV is a decent vehicle, but the design is older, you would get an older-style transmission (Honda has been very slow to get 6-speed auto transmissions or continuously variable ones into their product mix. The CRV competes with the Forester. As such, it has a less luxurious interior than the Legacy and does not deliver nearly as quiet a ride. The Legacy should be considered a step up. The Camry is at the end of its product cycle, whereas the Legacy is brand new, and offers both stability control and AWD standard for the comparable gas mileage of a front wheel drive car like the Camry. The new Legacy is projected to have better resale value than the previous Legacy. But drive them all, and you decide.
#859 of 1296 Re: Heat Problems [mikey00]
Jan 26, 2010 (7:47 pm)
I had both an 03 Legacy, and an 07. I loved the heaters which warmed up quickly and could really pour it out, but also didn't like that you couldn't direct everything out one port at a time, it always split.
As for the feet, yes, mine got cold too, and often because the place where it comes out isn't aimed down at the feet, it's more like at the knees. So it wouldn't do a good job of drying carpets which get wet.
My daughter, who was always in the back seat, complained about not having seat heaters back there, but also that there was no vent the sent heat back there (or air con in the summer). But given the cutbacks that Subaru made with the new OB (since they dropped the legacy wagon, for which I find it very difficult to forgive them! ) I don't expect we'll see any of that soon.
My 07 came off lease, and now due to a huge insurance leap, I need to find a cheap reliable car. I'd love to get an older forester or legacy because of the AWD, but the Lemonaid guide gives bad reviews with head gasket problems and says the transmissions don't hold up well after the fifth year, I believe. So because they hold their value, I can't afford one like I just turned in, and I'm nervous about getting an older one.
I'm not too fond of the CRV, and like you say, the AWD just isn't the same.
For a real joke, the rental car I have at the moment is a PT Cruiser...no seat heaters and just nowhere near the confidence or stability of driving that one. What a joke that car is.
#861 of 1296 Re: thinking of buying a new legacy [ateixeira]
Jan 28, 2010 (9:08 am)
"You have to watch that video of the Tribeca and Legacy GT (both with VTD) climing that ramp with traction to a single wheel at a time. "
tests like that are believable if and only if they are done by an independent party.
#862 of 1296 Re: thinking of buying a new legacy [millwood0]
Jan 28, 2010 (9:28 am)
I don't see how they could "cheat", given you see some wheelspin, and then how power transfers to the other side.
It's not a locker, it's not open, so it has to be the VTD/VDC combination at work.
#863 of 1296 Re: thinking of buying a new legacy [ateixeira]
Jan 28, 2010 (8:10 pm)
I thought it was quite interesting, also on the hill climb, but there could be ways to stop the rollers spinning, and also when they back up and then try again the momentum could help.
The hokey narration, hardly unbiased, make me just think, "ok, let me see this from some other independent lab as well. I've seen a test drive on the Volvo site where they drive their suv right up a 35% grade with no problems, strange, it couldn't do it as well in this test....
There are so many variables that could easily cause that big a difference. Independent testing would make it more believable. I'm not saying that the Subie couldn't do all that, it is a great AWD system, but independent testing would help make it more believable.
#864 of 1296 Re: thinking of buying a new legacy [cdndriver]
Jan 29, 2010 (7:29 am)
Perhaps Edmunds could acquire a ramp like that and include a ramp test for every AWD vehicle.
That would be great.
Hosts - can you forward that suggestion to the road test team? That would be totally unique, an industry first. Such a ramp can't cost a lot, either.
I've seen Mercedes and BMW haul them out to events they host.