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Plymouth Grand Voyager
by shopdog97
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Feb 08, 2009 (11:39 am)
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My son bought a 1996 Grand Voyager recently. The original owner told us the speedometer and tachometer stopped working about 2 weeks ago. He never had a problem with it before. Other than that, it seems to be in very good shape with only 107,000K on it. I drove it and it runs very strong. I was told that the issue with the speedo and tach may be a bad output speed sensor on the transmission. This comes from a friend at a local Chrysler dealer. He also told me that if that's not it, then it could be a wiring or instrument problem(shudder the thought!) Eventually, this must be solved. Any suggestions anyone?
E-mail me at mlscas rcn.com with any info you can give
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- #2 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [shopdog97]
by xwesx
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Feb 09, 2009 (8:47 am)
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Replying to: shopdog97 (Feb 08, 2009 11:39 am)
Is it only those two gauges that are out, or is the whole instrument panel not working? If it is just those two, then it very well may be the speed sensor, but that usually throws a code on the ECM.
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- #3 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [xwesx]
by shopdog97
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Feb 10, 2009 (6:45 am)
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Replying to: xwesx (Feb 09, 2009 8:47 am)
xwesx, thanks for responding. Now I have to wonder whether this van has other electrical problems as well as the dead gauges. To answer your question, no, only the tach and the speedometer are not working. My son just got this thing on the road yesterday, and while he was here at our house, the van wouldn't start when he went to leave. I had to give him a jump. The battery's info tag says its only about 2 years old(it looks physically small for a van with this much equipment 525CCA) Now, the check engine light is on. We went to a local auto parts store and they checked the battery and found it to be a little low, but not critical. Both terminals were heavily corroded and I cleaned them with baking soda and took them off and used my terminal brush on them and the posts. Van started up right away but before he pulled away the check engine light came on again. His radio also doesn't work very well, a lot of racket and crackling is coming out of the speakers.(it does settle down though) I'm thinking there may be more going on here, I just hope for my son's sake it isn't too serious. These are the problems you face when you buy a used vehicle.
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- #4 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [shopdog97]
by xwesx
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Feb 10, 2009 (9:33 am)
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Replying to: shopdog97 (Feb 10, 2009 6:45 am)
Well, if the ECM is throwing a code (the check engine light comes on), that might help lead you in the right direction. I say *might* because with electrical problems, the vehicle could be receiving false positives from the actual problem source and therefore posting codes that are not accurate. Get yourself an OBD-II code reader. They are fairly inexpensive and one will pay for itself in no time at all.
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- #5 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [xwesx]
by shopdog97
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Feb 14, 2009 (12:21 pm)
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Replying to: xwesx (Feb 10, 2009 9:33 am)
xwesx, I had said a few days ago that the van's service engine was on. My son did go to our local Autozone and they did a scan for him. Here is what they found: HO2S 12 circuit condition- Heated Oxygen Sensor, Bank 1, Sensor 2. Basically he has a bad O2 sensor, nothing to do with output speed sensor. How many O2 sensors does this van have? On the OBDII printout it sounds like there are 3, and Autozone couldn't verify the number, saying that there are at least 2, one before the cat and one after. This says #2 is bad. I can understand how he could have a bad O2 sensor, I've had to replace them both on my 98' Dodge Dakota truck in recent years. But I suspect that there is more to this than just the sensor. I'm praying that there is not a major electrical issue. Now the output speed sensor is not very expensive(25.00 at NAPA) and we may go ahead and change it and first make sure the wiring and connector is OK. He is going to make arrangements to get the van into a local garage that he used to have work done and hopefully all these things will be resolved. Like I said, the van runs great and has a lot of power for its size, although I don't think it gets great gas mileage.
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- #6 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [shopdog97]
by xwesx
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Feb 16, 2009 (9:48 am)
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Replying to: shopdog97 (Feb 14, 2009 12:21 pm)
It's a tough call. I cannot fathom how a oxygen sensor could affect your tach and speedometer, though it would certainly impact fuel economy. But I would also think that those two gauges are controlled by different sensors, since they are tracking speeds from different components (engine versus wheel speed).
Good luck with it; please share the resolution, if found.
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- #7 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [xwesx]
by shopdog97
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Feb 16, 2009 (12:38 pm)
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Replying to: xwesx (Feb 16, 2009 9:48 am)
I stopped at a local garage today and spoke with the owner on my son's behalf. He has been in business for over 30 years and I have faith in his work. When I described to him what's going on(or rather, NOT going on) with the speedo and tach, he was just about positive that it isn't the output speed sensor as we thought. The ECM would almost always set the code for that, and we aren't seeing it. Daryl(the shop owner)said that if the computer is working right, it would have given us that code. We checked all the fuses both under the hood and under the dash, and nothing appears amiss. My boy tells me now that his horn also doesn't work(it does blow when he locks the van remotely, so I'm thinking maybe the relay??) This again leads me to suspect other electrical issues, and I will suggest to my son that he get the van into Daryl's shop and at least have him diagnose the problem and move on from there. Like anything else this takes $$$$, something he doesn't have much of. He also found out that the spare tire mounting device is shot(probably why the previous owner had the tire and wheel in his garage instead of on the vehicle) He called a local dealer to get a price on a new one and it was absolutely rediculous. A local salvage yard had about 10 vans in stock, but knew all too well about this issue and said that none of his were any good. So for now he'll have to just keep the tire in the back in case he needs it until he finds one. It just bolts up underneath. He said he may found something on E-bay, so we'll see. Thanks again for your interest and when I know what's going on, I'll come back in and let you know. Have a great day!
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- #8 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [shopdog97]
by shopdog97
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Feb 20, 2009 (7:03 am)
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Replying to: shopdog97 (Feb 16, 2009 12:38 pm)
Just a follow-up on my son's Grand Voyager: We did take it to this garage I spoke about earlier and I am waiting(rather anxiously)to hear now(10AM Friday the 20th) just what's going on. It is a lot more complicated that I could ever have expected. I think the former owner was told to get rid of this van when he started having these issues. Not everyone is honest and truthful, and that includes a 72 year old widower. This garage narrowed the problem to the ignition switch yesterday and we gave them authorization to replace it, but then I got call late in the afternoon and was told the thing went to what is known as Lock-Out Mode. It wouldn't even start or anything. The service manager called in favor from a former employee who now works at a local Chrysler dealership and has access to equipment to further diagnose this issue. This was supposed to happen late yesterday afternoon and we know nothing more at this point. We are hoping that no news turns out to be good news. The bottom line is let the buyer beware. I told my son that there are no guarantees in life and just to move on from here. I'll come back in later and let you know what the verdict is.
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- #9 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [shopdog97]
by xwesx
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Feb 20, 2009 (9:34 am)
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Replying to: shopdog97 (Feb 20, 2009 7:03 am)
That's amazing. And, you are completely right about that statement, "not everyone is honest and truthful." I was extremely leery about purchasing my '98 Grand Caravan a couple years ago, and thought for sure I was making a huge mistake, but it turned out that the seller really was honest.
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- #10 of 20
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Re: Plymouth Grand Voyager [xwesx]
by shopdog97
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Feb 21, 2009 (6:50 am)
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Replying to: xwesx (Feb 20, 2009 9:34 am)
Hello again. We now know what is wrong with my son's Grand Voyager. The manager of the garage called to inform us that the circuit board(behind the instrument cluster)is defective and must be replaced. Initially they suspected it was in the ignition switch and replaced it, but it did no good. Can you believe that they didn't charge him for that? Because that was not the fix, they wouldn't charge for that! I find that truly amazing. Someone from a local Chrysler dealership came in to use a DVR to help diagnose the problem and between him and 3 other techs they narrowed it down to this circuit board, which is why the speedo and tach aren't working. There is a remote possibility it could also be the BCM(Body Control Module) But they are leaning towards the board first. I am now convinced that the former owner did something to cause a surge of power by incorrectly jumping the battery or maybe reversing the terminals. None of that really matters now, so it's time to move on and fix it. The garage owner told me that these boards were notorious for going out on these vehicles and their related siblings, the Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Town and Country. I have to wonder if there was ever a recall on them. But he and another tech said that if the incorrect jumping proceedure was used and sparks flew, that would have been enough to fry this board. The bad news is that this part is $750.00 installed. And the man at the Chrysler Dealership must come back with the laptop and reprogram the computer once the board is replaced. Ain't life grand?? The garage may be willing to make payment arrangements with my son, as his only income is from Social Security due to a disability. These people were so wonderful to us , God bless them. When I took him to pick up the van yesterday they wouldn't even take the $80.00 diagnostic fee, they said they'd apply it to the total of swapping the board. It'd be a nicer world if everyone in business had their philosophy, they went over and above the call of duty in this case. Sorry for being so windy. Thanks for the support.
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