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Automotive News & Views Will Green Cars Be Exciting To Drive And Enjoyable To Own?
312 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 1:15 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 30, 2009 12:52 pm) Yeah, sorry I didn't mean to do that in the first place. Give me an electric car with 20 mile range for my commute, and as long as it seats 4, goes at least 65 mph, and has an air conditioner, I'm good. That is fantastic, I think the overwhelming majority of the motoring public feels that way. I think vehicles such as the new Fusion Hybrid (which bests the TCH F/E), Prius, Civic Hybrid etc are great for all of these drivers. If I can figure out a way to add a/c to my son's Little Tikes Cozy Coupe and hook up a washing machine motor, I think I have a business plan. That said, there are a number of driving enthusiasts that do like things like the way a car feels, the way it corners, the way it sounds, even the way it looks. I don't think that group is going to be totally excited about going along with a change, nor do I think that group is big enough to worry about. If one tries to legislate what others drive, I don't think that is going to work out so well. In Europe, they tax petrol, diesel and LPG. This keeps things in check and gives enough money back to make improvements in other areas. I'd be in favor of a system like this one, but wouldn't willingly accept being told what I am to like and dislike. |
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The answer is????? No!!!! They will get us where we are going but driving for pleasure has already become a social crime in most car buyers minds. I also would give up a lot for a practical EV or even a practical diesel, by anyone but VW. VW dependability shows the Germans are still mad about the second world war. The day of the bare bones sports car are gone. The day of the no ABS no Skid control sports Coupe is almost gone. Computer control is here to stay and it will only become more intrusive. Just a fact of what the future holds. And will anyone but those of us old enough to remember MGs, TRs old Porsche sportsters care? Nope. All people really want is something that starts and gets them where they are going with as little input from them as they can get away with. As a example, Ford may sell more radios that you can talk to than they do manual transmissions. The next generation will care even less because they are plugged into technology far more than we are. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 30, 2009 5:24 pm) In my personal opinion, yes, the Tesla qualifies (on paper) as being enjoyable and exciting to drive. Since I've never driven one because they don't exactly exist yet, I don't know...fictitious cars don't count. Also, at a cost of $100,000, I don't see it as being more fun then say, S2000 or WRX at 30% the cost. Secondly, other people really seem to enjoy tromping through the woods and mud. An SUV might be very exciting to them, if totally dull to me. 'Enjoyable'? How many buyers are there each year? 40 million? Well then you have 40 million versions of 'enjoyable'. Enjoyable for a youngster in his first car at 19 is pure unadulterated pleasure. The fact that it's a Versa doesn't matter one bit. Those from the George Halas School of Economics ( 'He throws around nickels like they were manhole covers.': Mike Ditka ) love the fact that their 4 cyl MT 1994 Toyota pickup has never missed a beat in 200,000+ miles. Now that's pure unadulterated pleasure. 40 million would be a a dream world at this point. Its expected that 12-12.5 million units will move in North America in 2009. I am missing your point about volume and buyers and enjoyable. If you mean each person has their own purchase criteria, I would totally agree with that statement, and I think it supports my argument that choices are a good thing. 
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jan 30, 2009 6:51 pm)
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 30, 2009 2:32 pm) I would not count on a lighter more fuel efficient vehicle. One of the most fun vehicles I ever drove was a friends CRX. The EPA pretty much destroyed that car with all the crap you listed above. I don't like ABS, PQR and all the other driving aids. I like to feel the steering. By the time CA gets finished with any EV allowed in the state it will weigh 4000 lbs and be lucky to have a 25 mile range. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 30, 2009 7:39 pm) Ahh, thanks got it. But then are you in agreement with me that choice is a good thing, so each of those 12 million or 40 million or whatever customers can find exactly what meets their needs and desires? |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Jan 30, 2009 6:51 pm) Umm, they have already delivered over 100 to customers, they started building them last year. So, fictitious? No. Over $100K? Yes, so not many folks will be able to take advantage of this "green revolution" just yet.  gagrice: I would not count on a lighter more fuel efficient vehicle. One of the most fun vehicles I ever drove was a friends CRX. The EPA pretty much destroyed that car with all the crap you listed above. But let's face it, if you had the chance to buy a brand new CRX this year, 1800 pounds, 100 hp, 0-60 in 7 secs, hunkered down, with a 92 inch wheelbase just like the CRXs of yore, would you buy one? I think you might stick with your SUV, and the problem in general for folks like me is that there are a lot of people who prefer big, heavy, and remote to small, light, and involved in the drive. Now electric propulsion looks to make a big go of it in the next 20 years, and even the engine note will go away in favor of a distant hum.... 
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 31, 2009 1:26 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 31, 2009 3:32 pm) You can still fly down the highway on 10 through Texas but a SUV does that as well if not better than any car. Who doesn't use cruise control? I believe the future will be all about comfort and functionality. EVs, Hybrids maybe small diesels will become the norm and driving will less intensive. |
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I am an engaged driver. I need to have feedback and feeling with the machine and the roadway. It doesn't necessarily have to be Formula 1 level performance, but there has to be something there or I see no point in driving it or using it. Push come to shove, I will restore an older vehicle just to have something that has a sense of being. Hybrids don't do it for me. Bland econoboxes that require you to shift down two gears and pushing the throttle to the floor to get enough power to climb it without holding up traffic behind you also doesn't endear me to something. I have been in highly comfortable vehicles. They are just a thing. I have been in and owned vehicles that had character and were responsive. Those are the kind of vehicles that make driving more enjoyable and give me a reason to be engaged. If someone wants an electric only vehicle, they are welcome to it. I don't want one. Even a hybrid must have something more than just a high fuel economy rating to make it worth buying. Diesel engines in vehicles that have a sense of being would be nice. Then again, give me a diesel Kawasaki KLR650, as are made for the United States military, particularly the Marine Corps, and I would be rather happy to ride it. With a fuel economy rating of 90 to 100 miles per gallon one of those bikes beats the capabilities of every hybrid made today and allows one to enjoy the trip from point A to point B. |
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