Last post on Dec 02, 2013 at 7:58 PM
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#1045 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [gagrice]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Apr 08, 2013 (8:16 am)
I don't watch anything now but Diners, Drive-in and Dives.
Wait, you fell off the wagon? Now that's news.
NASCAR continues to green up:
"An ambitious NASCAR environmental-awareness program is now in the works in the run-up to Earth Day."
NASCAR Ramps Up Green Program
#1046 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [steve_]
Apr 08, 2013 (8:44 am)
"The number of trees to be planted will, NASCAR says, essentially eliminate the sport's carbon footprint by absorbing a volume of carbon emissions approximately equal to those produced by racecars in NASCAR's three national touring series."
WHAT A STUNNING LOAD OF BS! Sorry for the caps, but I am shouting at the screen right now. As if the racecar emissions amounted to ANYTHING. How about the 100,000 fans driving to see the race???
#1047 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [ateixeira]
Apr 08, 2013 (9:44 am)
Some people are just bitter about a couple of Novembers, and the public not believing those who could "save us"
Here's how I see it - the competitors have received federal subsidies to develop their hybrids and similar cars. We can play the same game, or impose compensating penalties on their cars.
I'd rather sink money into cars than ungrateful parasitic nations.
#1048 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [fintail]
Apr 08, 2013 (10:10 am)
We can't be saved. People here think cheap fuel is a constitutional right.
Every administration I can remember has talked about an energy policy yet we're as dependent as ever on foreign oil. OPEC has way too much power.
I get what Gary is saying, the road to heck is paved with good intentions. Laws have to be carefully written and with no loopholes, else we get the parasites you mention.
It's hard not to be protectionist, though. Not easy striking that balance.
#1049 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [ateixeira]
Apr 08, 2013 (10:15 am)
"yet we're as dependent as ever on foreign oil. OPEC has way too much power. "
Not true, there's been a huge increase in N. American oil production, and a corresponding drop in oil imports.
#1050 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [texases]
Apr 08, 2013 (10:17 am)
China will more than pick up whatever slack there is, though.
Glad to hear there's some progress.
#1051 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [ateixeira]
Apr 08, 2013 (10:33 am)
The recent low in domestic crude production was about 5 million a day, now up to about 7.5 million barrels a day, while imports peaked at a bit over 10 million a day, now dropping under 8 million a day. So we've gone from about 2:1 to 1:1.
But you're right, world demand keeps prices up. Folks hoping for a major drop in crude prices will be disappointed. I would only expect that with the next major world (eastern hemisphere in particular) recession.
#1052 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [texases]
Apr 08, 2013 (10:37 am)
Could not find recent charts, but here's one that is a couple of years old:
Looks like imported oil did peak and start to drop, and from what you're saying those lines have intersected again, right?
Would be nice to have a 3rd data point - oil prices, charted as well.
#1053 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [ateixeira]
Apr 08, 2013 (10:53 am)
It's not fair or accurate to link R&D costs to the few EVs that have been produced so far.
And why not? That is how businesses have to run. You don't think Apple includes R&D in the cost of their products. Subsidies only muddy the water. They DO count against the cost. Just comes out of the tax payers pocket.
I am not convinced the CNW study was flawed. After all the only people refuting it had a political agenda. Something you do not like. My guess is a 2004 Hummer will be around a lot longer than a 2004 Prius. We have not even reached the 10 year mark with the 2nd Gen Prius. If the Hummer was still running 30 years and 300k miles and the Prius is ready for the smasher at 10 years it is obvious which is the most polluting. Even Toyota tapped their Prius at close to double the pollution in manufacture of a comparable gas only vehicle. Only time will tell.
I would rather see a comparison of a gas hybrid against a comparable diesel running on biodiesel produced with algae or waste oil. Yet very little is spent on that most promising of green alternatives. The right palms have not been greased in our government.
#1054 of 1543 Re: sounds like they're toast [gagrice]
Apr 08, 2013 (11:18 am)
And why not?
Because these studies put all the R&D costs on the early production cars (i.e. very near term).
Did you know CNW came out with an update and the H2 was no longer rated ahead of the Prius? That's because they had to re-distribute R&D costs over a longer production run.
That was many years ago. Imagine if they did that again with the 3 million Prius already sold.
An iPhone is only new for a year, so it's fair to spread R&D costs for that model until the new model comes out.
But HSD has been on the Prius since 1998, and is now still in use on 3 different models. They've sold over 3 million.
Sure, they can say the Volt costs double by adding R&D costs, but now the Caddy ELR is here, so do you cut those in half? At a minimum they have to spread R&D costs for ALL projected output for the Volt and ELR for the entire production run of both models.
Only time will tell
For the Prius, even CNW admits the Hummer doesn't use less energy cradle to grave. They had an agenda and served their purpose. Do you really think any of those news outlets did a follow-up study to say "sorry we were wrong about the Prius?" Of course not.