Article Comments - 2010 Honda Insight vs. 2009 Toyota Prius

74 messages, Last post on Dec 07, 2009 at 6:43 AM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Insight, Toyota Prius, Car Comparisons, Hybrid Cars, Hatchback, Sedan

Comparison Test: 2010 Honda Insight vs. 2009 Toyota Prius - You might remember the original Honda Insight. When introduced in 1999, it was the first hybrid vehicle sold in the U.S.A., an affordable technical tour de force that achieved spectacular fuel economy by adding a battery-assisted electric motor to the powertrain. But as a diminutive two-seater, it certainly wasn't a car for the masses. (more)

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#7 of 74 Comparisons To Be Helpfull by railroadjames Jan 26, 2009 (9:11 am)
I just don't get it. Many of you "critics" seem to be highly critical of any comparison of two cars. I personally appreciate the early info and data for what it's worth. I take from the cars the data to be compared and go with it. Early on I don't expect all the info to be inline with the usual comparisons. People are anxious to get out any info that can be usefull. I like both cars. I'm somewhat flattered that Honda has, in many ways, mirrored the Prius. I'm sure Toyota has to feel good about the similarities of their car to the Insight. I do think that the Prius is getting a bit pricey these days. When I bought my '04 Prius back in Nov. of '03 it was $19,995.00 plus delivery. Out the door w/ taxes it was about $21, 456.00 I'm pretty sure. Honda's new Insight looks good and should be a great seller if the dealers don't ruin it for the buyers. I must admit that Honda dealers seem to have a lackluster reputation compared with Toyota dealers (at least in my N.W. IND area). Replies to this message: Talonts (Jan 26, 2009 11:52 am)
#8 of 74 Re: Comparisons To Be Helpfull [railroadjames] by Talonts Jan 26, 2009 (11:52 am)
Replying to: railroadjames (Jan 26, 2009 9:11 am) I don't mind if they compare two cars, as long as they at least attempt to compare cars that should be compared. Comparing the newest generation Insight, that isn't on the market yet, to the current Prius, instead of the newest generation Prius that is due on the market just a month or 2 after the new Insight, is ridiculous. While it's certainly a good space-filler, it's not really very useful to someone that is looking to buy the latest technology, or looking for the highest mpg. The Insight will certainly have its' uses, especially for those that just want a stripped car to get it as cheap as possible. Or shorter people And it's pretty good looking on the outside (the dash is a mess, it looks like parts were thrown on the clay buck and used wherever they stuck). But they need to do the comparo in May when pricing is known, not guessed, and with 2010s in both cases, optioned as closely as possible, to be useful to anyone that can afford to shop for a new car in today's economy. Beyond that, if the Prius ends up with some option that isn't even available on the Insight, the pricing of that option needs to be factored out of the price difference for a *valid* "payback calc". Because no one in their right mind does payback calcs on options - could you really see someone saying "my leather seats (8 speaker stereo/power windows/whatever) have a 5 year payback over cloth seats"? That's essentially what Edmunds has done here, when comparing cars with dissimilar options. I could do something equally ridiculous, like doing a payback calc on the engine in a Lamborghini, since it's obviously different than the engine in a Prius, but would it be useful to anyone? I doubt it.
#9 of 74 Re: apples to oranges [Talonts] by kdhspyder Jan 26, 2009 (4:07 pm)
Replying to: Talonts (Jan 23, 2009 12:35 pm) I resonded on the original article with the same comment, 'Why compare a 6 y.o. vehicle with one not even on the streets yet?'. Editor Karl responded to the effect that the comparo is valid because there is no other such comparo in existence. Well from an archival point of view I guess it has some value. 'This is how the new Insight compares to the outgoing Prius.' But yes in May a comparo of the two new 2010 vehicles would be a lot more valuable to real potential buyers this year and into the future.
#10 of 74 Insight/Prius comparison by whitey9 Feb 06, 2009 (9:00 am)
After watching/reading the comparison I was mildly amused. As everyone knows the Prius is due to be replaced with a new model next year. This new Insight is a new model. The Prius basically dates from MY'04. There is no mention of the 8yr/80K mi warranty on the hybrid system components. Is my '07 Prius the last of those cars that had this warranty? Does the Insight have this coverage? Why would anyone buy a car today w/o cruise control? I can see a back-up camera being optional, but not cruise control. I see the wheels on the Insight are steel, but the Prius' wheels are alloy. Are any of the Insight's body panels aluminum/plastic like the Prius? I see the seat in the Insight is adjustable. The Prius seat sits too high for me ( 6'2" ), and there is no adjustment provided for height. Why are we so transfixed on the HIGHWAY mileage figure? Do most of us do the MAJORITY of our driving on the highway? I think not. What about the braking systems? Do they stop from 60mph in 120' or less? They should! I drive 65mi a day in suburban/urban traffic with half of these miles on interstate highways. I can get as little as 39mpg when the weather and traffic patterns are bad, but I can also get 54mpg when they are not. The Prius is smooth, quiet, and NOT a slug. I am middle-aged and require a certain amount of "comfort". You would never catch me inflating the tires to 50+ psi. Or parking on a hill, to coast down in the morning to "save gas". I drive the Hybrid like a regular car and do a minimum of "coasting", but do drive the speed limit to most people's chagrin. The Prius Hybrid system operates "seamlessly". I do not feel that I am giving up anything I have had in any of the other 5 cars/van/Suv ( hybrid ) I own. Although the interior and exterior styling is "semi-spartan" I am comfortable with the equipment except it lacks a sunroof, and heated seats. My car is a PKG#6 with all options, including navi system, and leather. What difference does the disctinction of "mild hybrid/full hybrid" make? That is like saying one engine has an advantage over another if it has 2 spark plugs per cylinder versus 1 spark plug. It is just another means to an end. Period. Replies to this message: gfr1 (Feb 06, 2009 7:38 pm)
#11 of 74 Re: Insight/Prius comparison [whitey9] by gfr1 Feb 06, 2009 (7:38 pm)
Replying to: whitey9 (Feb 06, 2009 9:00 am) What difference does the disctinction of "mild hybrid/full hybrid" make? Well, you either don't care, or don't know. "Mild Hybrid" can mean most anything to qualify for the distinction. Some GMs, for instance, have a "Mild Hybrid" that simply shuts down the gas engine, A/C, power steering, etc. at a stop sign and then a motor/generator (driven by the accessorry belt) starts the engine again so it can move! Hooray, "We have the most Hybrid models of any manufacturer"! I consider a "mild Hybrid" a distinction! I guess it is "Just another means to an end", though. -- GR
#12 of 74 Wow, taking this far too much to heart. by crutnacker Feb 07, 2009 (10:04 am)
Yes, Toyota is redesigning the Prius. And maybe the redesign will get 800 MPG. (I doubt it). I'm sure Toyota will address some of the issues that many reviewers have had with it. And in the end, it will still be a bigger car, more suitable as a family sedan. But, it will still have a much higher price tag attached. (I doubt Edmunds is making a WAG here). In the end, this is a comparison of two model lines that are hybrid only. It may be apples and oranges, but Edmunds likes the current one better. While I'm sure Toyota will address some of the shortcomings of the Prius, the real questions are if it is going to drive better (a complaint I've heard about the Prius), if the driver comfort will be better (another complaint), and the value of the car is greater. My guess is that unless the redesign is perfect, it's still going to be a close race.
#13 of 74 Plus, let us not forget.... by crutnacker Feb 07, 2009 (10:05 am)
They compared a redesigned Civic Hybrid to an older Prius and the Prius beat in in a head to head.
#14 of 74 2010 Insight vers. 2009 Prius by strieby Feb 09, 2009 (6:17 am)
I don't see why you waste your time with this comparison. All you would have had to do was to wait until April and you could have a honest comparison 2010 vers. 2010 both new models!! What you did was not smart!! Replies to this message: morin2 (Mar 03, 2009 12:09 pm)
#15 of 74 Hybrid vs. Diesel in a Battle of Epic Efficiency by bwilson4web Feb 14, 2009 (10:07 pm)
So what was the 2009 Prius efficiency: "39 mpg" or "49 mpg" or "54 mpg" or "100 mpg" in four columns? We can't tell from this article. The extremes of automotive reporting on Prius mileage range from the "Top Gear" 17 mpg to more than 1,000 miles from a single tank. But these results are just as misleading as the Edmunds article. It is why I wrote the article referenced on how to "game" Prius mileage and it looks like the Edmunds team had a chance to 'look in the mirror.' I'm not a great fan of the EPA or Euro or other standard mileage tests because each assumes a driving profile that matches some standard drive. But these tests also hide what is really needed: a steady-state MPG vs. MPH curve, MPG to MPH curve, and a vehicle warm-up curve. With a steady-state MPG vs. MPH curve, owners can predict their mileage on a cross country trip and avoid critical speeds where the mileage falls off. It turns out that most cars have significant knees in their performance that are not known unless the MPG vs MPH is plotted. The MPG to MPH curve is a series of acceleration and stops over fixed distances to the same speed plotted for 20 mph, 30 mph and 50 mph. This lets us know the impact of stop and go traffic. It is a measure of inertial loss as well as engine-transmission performance. Finally, a warm-up fuel consumption curve is all that is needed to evaluate commuting distance mileage. If the commuting interval is shorter than this, the mileage won't ever reach the target. The problem is these fundamental physical characteristics are hidden in the standard EPA, Euro, Japanese or any other vehicle mileage tests and what passes for automotive reviews don't work either. IMHO, Edmunds could adopt a science based, testing profile for vehicles and publish the graphs missing from current testing results. With a web back-end, these charts should also predict mileage in any of the standard tests. But unlike them, it would also give clued drivers tricks to optimizing their rides. Bob Wilson
#16 of 74 Re: 2010 Insight vers. 2009 Prius [strieby] by morin2 Mar 03, 2009 (12:09 pm)
Replying to: strieby (Feb 09, 2009 6:17 am) I actually think this was a fair comparison for two vehicles that in a couple of months are likely to be selling for just about the very same price. The 2010 Prius will list at least $4K - 5K more than the Insight, and it could be argued that its unfair to compare vehicles priced so far apart. The 09 Prius might have greater incentives to move the old stock. I can't believe that Honda dealers will be selling the 2010 Insight at MSRP. I expect them to have "added dealer profit" on the windows. Its more likely that both Insight and 09 Prius will be competing in the $21-22K price while the 2010 Prius will probably start about $25K. Its conjecture on my part, but let's see what happens and how many people come back to read this comparison of 2 hybrids directly competing at the same price point. If gas was still over $4, can you imagine the mark-ups for these? It may make more sense to buy one when fuel is cheap.