- #33 of 412
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Deja Vu (berri)
by hpmctorque
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Jan 25, 2009 (12:25 pm)
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"I think VW was involved in the early Omni Horizon twins including providing some of the engines."
Yeah, the original Omni/Horizon 1.7 engine came from VW. Chrysler even sourced a 1.6 from Peugeot (around 1980) for a brief period before equipping these cars with a carburated version of the Chrysler 2.2.
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- #34 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by gogogodzilla
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Jan 25, 2009 (10:09 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 25, 2009 5:17 am)
Fiat has stated that when it does bring the 500 over to the states, it'll be the 100 hp version.
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- #35 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gogogodzilla]
by gagrice
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Jan 26, 2009 (6:50 am)
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Replying to: gogogodzilla (Jan 25, 2009 10:09 pm)
Well good luck to Fiat. I would not touch another gas guzzler. Been there and done that. Sad they could come to the market top of the heap for mileage. Instead they will opt for mediocrity. Why am I surprised?
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- #36 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by gogogodzilla
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Jan 26, 2009 (5:48 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 26, 2009 6:50 am)
Huh?
A 100 hp Fiat 500 is a gas guzzler?
(Maybe in comparison to a hybrid or diesel, but in comparison to most US economy cars?)
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- #37 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gogogodzilla]
by gagrice
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Jan 26, 2009 (9:05 pm)
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Replying to: gogogodzilla (Jan 26, 2009 5:48 pm)
If I was to crawl into something like that 500, I want it to get better than 37 MPG combined. The diesel version that is the same exact price in the UK gets 56.5 MPG. That is a hefty improvement. Not to mention they both have the same EU5 emissions rating and the diesel puts out a lot less GHG. It is the same old fight with CARB over diesel. I think my son in law does that well with his little Yaris. For me it is principle. I refuse to allow the schmucks in Sacramento bully me. I don't care how big Ahnold is.
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- #38 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by nippononly
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Jan 27, 2009 (7:16 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm)
Just so you know, in 2014 (or is it 2012?) the cars of the EU, diesels included, will have to meet all the same emissions regs as the cars in California. CARB has set a sensible standard - all cars should have to meet the same rules - and the Europeans agree. Which is good news for you gagrice, because in a couple of years all the European diesel models you like so much will be importable here without any extra emissions work. Including the 500 diesel, but don't hold your breath waiting for that one to arrive.
The reason that most of the really frugal European diesels (especially the small cars) never come here is not the emissions standards, it is that that they are DIRT SLOW by U.S. standards, and the automakers are afraid no-one will buy them. And that remark includes the 500 diesel, I'm sure. More's the pity.
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- #39 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [nippononly]
by gagrice
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Jan 27, 2009 (7:26 am)
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 27, 2009 7:16 am)
I am not so concerned about the Fiat 500. Though it may be a shot in the arm for Chrysler. I don't like the fact that the consumer is caught in the web created by clashing forces in the CA government. You have the more gas tax needed bunch. The use less fossil fuel people. The less GHG bunch and the zero emissions wackos. Not possible to please all with regulations. So I will continue to put out more GHG, use more fuel, pollute more and make the road tax people happy. No vehicle can please all the factions.
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- #40 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by nippononly
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Jan 27, 2009 (7:37 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 27, 2009 7:26 am)
No vehicle can please all the factions.
You looking to displease as many factions as possible there, garice?! 
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- #41 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [nippononly]
by gagrice
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Jan 27, 2009 (1:55 pm)
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 27, 2009 7:37 am)
They want to play tough with their ignorant rules. I will work with in the rules and blow the nasty exhaust in their faces. I would have been happy 11 years ago with a 45 MPG vehicle. The anti-diesel faction was against it. I believe it was a couple joined forces on that one. The emissions and road tax agencies.
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- #42 of 412
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [nippononly]
by kernick
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Jan 28, 2009 (9:44 am)
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 27, 2009 7:16 am)
The reason that most of the really frugal European diesels (especially the small cars) never come here is not the emissions standards, it is that that they are DIRT SLOW by U.S. standards,
Maybe partially true, and partially true that the safety standards are not exactly alike. One of the best things international organizations could do for the world is to have 1 set of standards, rather than having products redesigned for each market's environmental and safety specifications.
Oh, Audi seems to have a fairly fast diesel. 
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