- #31 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [hpmctorque]
by gagrice
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Jan 25, 2009 (5:17 am)
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Jan 25, 2009 4:10 am)
While the Fiat 500 would probably be a winner in the USA, it will probably be sent in the gas guzzling version. With the gas engine it gets a combined 37.3 MPG US. Which is ok. If we got the diesel version which I am sure is more driveable on our freeways, you get a combined 56.5 MPG US. It has a higher EU5 emissions rating than the Prius with the diesel. The Prius is only EU4 rated. And the Prius is over twice the price in the UK. The Fiat gets over 10 MPG better economy on the highway. So if Chrysler could put the Fiat 500 diesel in their showrooms I think they would have something to bring in the people again. Oh, and the diesel and gas versions in the top trim are the same price.
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- #32 of 413
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Deja Vu
by berri
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Jan 25, 2009 (9:16 am)
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Hasn't Chrysler been here before? I recall somewhere around the 60's Chrysler affiliated with companies like Simca and Mitsubishi in order to get small cars to combat VW and growing Datsun and Toyota. Remeber the Plymouth Cricket and Dodge Colt? Heck, GM couldn't pull it off with its own overseas subsidiaries. Opel was marginal at best for Buick and Pontiac dealers probably lost money on Vauxhall. I guess Mitsu did give Chrysler those blue smoke engines on some cars like early minivans. Ironically, I think VW was involved in the early Omni Horizon twins including providing some of the engines.
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- #33 of 413
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Deja Vu (berri)
by hpmctorque
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Jan 25, 2009 (12:25 pm)
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"I think VW was involved in the early Omni Horizon twins including providing some of the engines."
Yeah, the original Omni/Horizon 1.7 engine came from VW. Chrysler even sourced a 1.6 from Peugeot (around 1980) for a brief period before equipping these cars with a carburated version of the Chrysler 2.2.
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- #34 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by gogogodzilla
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Jan 25, 2009 (10:09 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 25, 2009 5:17 am)
Fiat has stated that when it does bring the 500 over to the states, it'll be the 100 hp version.
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- #35 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gogogodzilla]
by gagrice
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Jan 26, 2009 (6:50 am)
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Replying to: gogogodzilla (Jan 25, 2009 10:09 pm)
Well good luck to Fiat. I would not touch another gas guzzler. Been there and done that. Sad they could come to the market top of the heap for mileage. Instead they will opt for mediocrity. Why am I surprised?
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- #36 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by gogogodzilla
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Jan 26, 2009 (5:48 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 26, 2009 6:50 am)
Huh?
A 100 hp Fiat 500 is a gas guzzler?
(Maybe in comparison to a hybrid or diesel, but in comparison to most US economy cars?)
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- #37 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gogogodzilla]
by gagrice
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Jan 26, 2009 (9:05 pm)
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Replying to: gogogodzilla (Jan 26, 2009 5:48 pm)
If I was to crawl into something like that 500, I want it to get better than 37 MPG combined. The diesel version that is the same exact price in the UK gets 56.5 MPG. That is a hefty improvement. Not to mention they both have the same EU5 emissions rating and the diesel puts out a lot less GHG. It is the same old fight with CARB over diesel. I think my son in law does that well with his little Yaris. For me it is principle. I refuse to allow the schmucks in Sacramento bully me. I don't care how big Ahnold is.
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- #38 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by nippononly
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Jan 27, 2009 (7:16 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 26, 2009 9:05 pm)
Just so you know, in 2014 (or is it 2012?) the cars of the EU, diesels included, will have to meet all the same emissions regs as the cars in California. CARB has set a sensible standard - all cars should have to meet the same rules - and the Europeans agree. Which is good news for you gagrice, because in a couple of years all the European diesel models you like so much will be importable here without any extra emissions work. Including the 500 diesel, but don't hold your breath waiting for that one to arrive.
The reason that most of the really frugal European diesels (especially the small cars) never come here is not the emissions standards, it is that that they are DIRT SLOW by U.S. standards, and the automakers are afraid no-one will buy them. And that remark includes the 500 diesel, I'm sure. More's the pity.
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- #39 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [nippononly]
by gagrice
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Jan 27, 2009 (7:26 am)
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Replying to: nippononly (Jan 27, 2009 7:16 am)
I am not so concerned about the Fiat 500. Though it may be a shot in the arm for Chrysler. I don't like the fact that the consumer is caught in the web created by clashing forces in the CA government. You have the more gas tax needed bunch. The use less fossil fuel people. The less GHG bunch and the zero emissions wackos. Not possible to please all with regulations. So I will continue to put out more GHG, use more fuel, pollute more and make the road tax people happy. No vehicle can please all the factions.
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- #40 of 413
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Re: Fiat Quality: Perception vs. Reality [gagrice]
by nippononly
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Jan 27, 2009 (7:37 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 27, 2009 7:26 am)
No vehicle can please all the factions.
You looking to displease as many factions as possible there, garice?! 
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