Cash for Clunkers - Good or Bad Idea?

4110 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42 AM

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#4060 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gass suckers [gagrice] by srs_49 Nov 09, 2009 (8:26 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 09, 2009 6:29 am) Reaganomics had nothing to it with it. It was Paul Volcker, appointed by Jimmy Carter and reappointed by Reagan who raised the interest rates in order to wring stagflation (which he inherited from the Nixon/Ford administration) out of the economy. Yes, it was painful, but it had to be done. Even your reference implies that deficit spending is OK in order to stimulate the economy, just not a continuous stimulus. Re: "You cannot pump-prime an economy perpetually, stimulate consumption, and not suffer any negative consequences," a statement with which I happen to agree.
#4061 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gass suckers [gagrice] by kdhspyder Nov 09, 2009 (2:33 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 09, 2009 6:29 am) Right now is the first time that true Keynesian priciples have been applied to a true crisis. His theories were developed after the Great Depression but there hasn't been a time til now that's been as severe. Again every major economy in the world is employing Keynsian methods right now...even as late as this week. As reported by the NYT today.... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/business/10markets.html?_r=1&ref=business quote: Shares on all three continents rose after finance ministers said over the weekend that they would push ahead with efforts to revive economic growth through interest rates and increased government spending. The Dow Jones industrial average ended the day more than 200 points higher unquote: That's a majority. You remain in a small ineffective minority notwithstanding any support you might muster for your viewpoint. Replies to this message: steve_ (Nov 09, 2009 2:59 pm) gagrice (Nov 09, 2009 4:22 pm) kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 4:50 pm) berri (Nov 09, 2009 5:59 pm) and 1 more... plekto (Nov 09, 2009 6:40 pm)
#4062 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gas suckers [kdhspyder] by steve_ HOST Nov 09, 2009 (2:59 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 2:33 pm) This opinion piece from the Wall St. Journal makes a nice counterpoint I think (quoting von Mises, who's come up in here before). The Journal seems to flog the author's Universa fund quite a bit, so, as usual, don't completely lose the salt shaker.
#4063 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gass suckers [kdhspyder] by gagrice Nov 09, 2009 (4:22 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 2:33 pm) Shares on all three continents rose Because there is a total lack of confidence in the US dollar and our ability to stabilize our economy. “A lot of it is sentiment-driven and there the dollar is getting a vote of no confidence,” Mr. Dolan said. “The massive borrowing by the U.S. government is undermining confidence in the longer-term outlook for the dollar.” I have no faith that this Congress and Administration will do anything to correct the problems. We continue to lose jobs. Consumer confidence has not risen. The stimulus is not doing as it was hoped for. So if they are using Keynesian principles they don't seem to be working. The deficit this year alone will surpass the total of the last 10 years. I have to assume you have no children or grandchildren that will be buried under this load of debt. Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 4:50 pm) berri (Nov 09, 2009 5:59 pm) kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm) plekto (Nov 09, 2009 6:40 pm)
#4064 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gass suckers [gagrice] by kdhspyder Nov 09, 2009 (4:50 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 09, 2009 4:22 pm) There are whole segments of the US industrial base that are jumping for joy that the US$ is tanking. Since summer everything made here is 10-20% less costly in the world markets. OTOH if the seller doesn't discount the sales price of an exported commodity then the fall in the US$ is pure profit when sold overseas. In addition to you and me it has little or any effect unless we buy imported goods like Prius' and French wine or any consumer good made in the Far East. Maybe..maybe down the road this might heat up inflation but there's no sign of that now. The Fed however says it has inflation dead in its sights. At the first sign....BLAM. Worry, worry, worry... Replies to this message: berri (Nov 09, 2009 5:59 pm) kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm)
#4065 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gass suckers [kdhspyder] by berri Nov 09, 2009 (5:59 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 4:50 pm) In addition to you and me it has little or any effect unless we buy imported goods Wait a minute, it is affecting all of us with ever escalating commodity prices. Its the exact reason oil prices are so high despite the market currently being awash in supply. A cheap dollar may give Cat or Deere an overseas sales lift, but concurrently it drives up materials cost adversely affecting cost of goods sold and gross margin. Its a mixed blessing for them. Instable raw material costs is a major problem for manufacturers and their vendors. The Fed however says it has inflation dead in its sights I believe this is true, but how many times does government or industry get timing right? Also, as our industrial base shrinks more of the products we consume are imported potentially increasing consumer impact from a sinking dollar. I'm afraid that when the government means well and puts too much of their hands into things it too often turns out the medicine becomes worse than the illness. I don't doubt that the initial stimulus were necessary since presidents from both parties and their repective cabinets supported them. However you can't keep opening the spigot without eventually creating a flood. Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Nov 09, 2009 6:48 pm)
#4066 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gass suckers [gagrice] by plekto Nov 09, 2009 (6:40 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 09, 2009 4:22 pm) That government data/chart, though, doesn't include a dime spent on the Iraq/Afghanistan wars by Bush. If you add it in, it looks just as bad as Obama, or close to it. We're so far in debt that it's going to collapse unless a miracle happens. Today's debt clock just crossed 12 trillion dollars. The GDP of the U.S. is 13.84 Trillion dollars. When the debt becomes more than a year's GDP, credit ratings and value for that nation's currency will plummet. Expect very bad things next year as a result.
#4067 of 4110 Re: Rewarded the jerks for driving huge gass suckers [berri] by kdhspyder Nov 09, 2009 (6:48 pm)
Replying to: berri (Nov 09, 2009 5:59 pm) But it also employs more Americans. US manufacturers and exporters are able to do more business and thus hire more workers. I agree that like everything there's a limit. It's only in the last year that the US$ has crumbled. At the beginning of 2008 it was ~105Y : $1....then it fell to under 90 then recovered to 100 again now it's back at 90. Since this is an auto site, the US makers love the fact that imports are penalized 15% since last year. More money for them.