Cash for Clunkers - Good or Bad Idea?

4110 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42 AM

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What is this discussion about? Legislation, Truck, Sedan, Wagon, SUV

For questions about how the program works or to discuss program details, please visit our discussion titled, "Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?"

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#1550 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [srs_49] by dave8697 Jul 10, 2009 (9:10 am)
Replying to: srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 8:26 am) today there was an article about a 52 YO woman who luckily landed a job at an auto parts supplier making $8 an hour. Her lucky husband also recently landed a full time job at Walmart. Americans have been saving money and paying off debt like crazy now for over a year. Their debt has fallen from 13.9 Trillion to 13.8 Trillion. A hundred Billion dollar drop. Another 50 years and we can start spending again. The stimulus is spun by conservatives as not doing it's required job. It turns out to be a stealth wealth redistribution. Better that poor people get free health care than banks get bonus money? Both come at the future taxation on my children. Most of the news is meant to be a distraction.. M.J., C4C, bonuses. Cap and trade is wealth redist. also. An excuse to send poor people $400 apiece each year. So now we are getting worse but at a slower pace? Awesome job BO Replies to this message: xrunner2 (Jul 10, 2009 9:22 am)
#1551 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [Mr_Shiftright] by srs_49 Jul 10, 2009 (9:18 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 8:39 am) Well, my area survived the demise of the US steel industry (Bethlehem Steel to be exact), the moving of banks to Delaware, and the closing of the local GM facility, to name just a few. Yes, those closings hurt certain areas harder than others, but we are still here! I'm don't agree with your "symbolic value". GM's reputation has been on a downward decline for years. The prestige of America, if it is tied to any industry, is more tied to that of Boeing, Microsoft, and Intel than it ever will be to the D3/2. GM should have disappeared (maybe allowed to fade away is a better way to put it) years ago, way before it was able to accumulate $60+ billion in debt. That would have spread the pain out over years Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 10:14 am) steve_ (Jul 10, 2009 10:22 am) Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 11:20 am) erniesdad (Jul 10, 2009 11:12 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 12:01 pm) srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 12:20 pm) Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 12:39 pm) and 1 more... isellhondas (Jul 10, 2009 5:23 pm) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 11:35 am) lemko (Jul 13, 2009 4:40 am)
#1552 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [dave8697] by xrunner2 Jul 10, 2009 (9:22 am)
Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 10, 2009 9:10 am) So now we are getting worse but at a slower pace? Awesome job BO The worsening trend is improving.
#1553 of 4110 Re: Scrap Value Received under Program [windsurferk] by kdhspyder Jul 10, 2009 (9:51 am)
Replying to: windsurferk (Jul 10, 2009 5:20 am) This paragraph is not well-written but I think that it's written to give the consumer a sense of confidence that his or her clunker really is a clunker. How so? As I read it this means that when you and your Dad go in to have the vehicle appraised the dealer has to tell you what the estimated scrap value is. YOU DO NOT GET ANY CREDIT FOR THIS SCRAP VALUE!! Most people are smart enough to have a good idea of what their trade is worth. If it's a 97 Explorer V8 with 150,000 on the clock it's scrap value is about $500. This is the number that has to be disclosed. The more common situation would be when somebody trades in a 2002 Explorer V8 and the vehicle is 'worth' $5000 at scrap. THIS is the situation why the dealer must disclose the trade in value. Taking the $4500 voucher for a $5000 vehicle isn't smart. No one should be encouraged to do so. Again you get no credit for the scrap value as I read it. If you want some of this 'scrap value' then take out the 'sellable' parts yourself before giving it to the dealer. This is perfectly above board as long as the vehicle is still legal to be driven on the road. Replies to this message: steve_ (Jul 10, 2009 9:56 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 10:10 am)
#1554 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [maryh3] by dtownfb Jul 10, 2009 (9:52 am)
Replying to: maryh3 (Jul 10, 2009 5:19 am) mary, i read your post with great interest and respect but when I read this line: "For a government supposedly founded on the principles that men were equal and should have equal rights to compete -- there is something rotten in the State. I have to agree with others that you are being very naive in your thinking. Money controls this country. We don't live in a democratic society. We live in a capitalistic society (officially we are considered a republic). The simple fact we only have two political parties and there is no realistic way a third party could ever become president or hold a major political office is added proof. Money drives our politics. Why else would millionaires spend $$millions to get elected to a job that pays $200k? that statement bothers me on other levels as well. I wish our country was run like this but history has shown time and time again this is not the case. for the record, i have written many times that we should do a government backed bankruptcy for Gm and absolutely nothing for Chrysler. A failure of both would have destroyed the suppliers and dealership network. Based on your thinking of not having TARP, you would have to pay cash for your car because banks would be very reluctant to offer credit.. Ask some of the salesmen that hang out on these boards how tough credit has gotten in the past year. Now imagine what it would be like if AIG and Citi had failed along with Lehman. think sales are down now.... and no Honda and Toyota would not simply fill the void. Both of those companies are struggling as well. The difference is their business model and credit rating allow them to survive in this environment. Both have major production reductions this year compared to the last several years. Nissan was in talks with Chrysler for a year to merge but backed out. Fiat merged with Chrysler without spending a dime. And there were no better offers for Chrysler! that should tell you how bad the auto industry is right now. I don't like all the spending or government involvement but again, this is not 2006 when everything was flowing nicely and the stock market was over 13,000. The fact that there was serious talk of nationalizing the banks should tell you how serious the situation is/was. BTW, even with Chrysler and GM coming out of bankruptcy, there is still a good chance that both companies fail. will I ever buy a Fiat/Chrysler or GM? F/C probably not but Chrysler hasn't sold anything in the past 15 years that has appealed to me. GM? I had a pretty bad experience with 2001 Malibu. I need more time with them plus there are still better cars available for the price.
#1555 of 4110 Re: Scrap Value Received under Program [kdhspyder] by steve_ HOST Jul 10, 2009 (9:56 am)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 9:51 am) I took it to read that you could negotiate with the dealer for extra money based on the scrap value, over and above the $60 the dealer will get from the feds. I wonder if I can take off the catalytic converter on my minivan, trade it as a clunker, and not get tagged by the feds for the $11,000 fine or whatever it is? Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 10:10 am)
#1556 of 4110 Re: Tangential bit of information [maryh3] by kdhspyder Jul 10, 2009 (9:59 am)
Replying to: maryh3 (Jul 10, 2009 5:44 am) Convenient hypocrisy. But thank you for participating in the program and helping to further the goals of improving the auto industry. Your assitance is appreciated. Replies to this message: dtownfb (Jul 10, 2009 10:06 am)
#1557 of 4110 Re: Tangential bit of information [maryh3] by dtownfb Jul 10, 2009 (10:03 am)
Replying to: maryh3 (Jul 10, 2009 5:44 am) Actually Gm and Chrysler came begging to Congress back in November for the bailout money. I think Rick Wagoner and Bob Nardelli got Raspberry nominations for Worst Performance by a CEO testifying in front of Congress. congress said no; bush said yes and i will use the TARP money and let my buddy Obama deal with it. Obama said GM and Chrysler show me your plans for revival; his auto task force said this plan sucks (yes it is an official term now). You want the money, you need to do A,B and C by xx date or go into bankruptcy. Oh yeah, Rick Wagoner, get to steppin'. Take advantage of the C4C bill. You aren't screwing the government, you are actually screwing the taxpayers (and we will not go into that any further). It's nice to debate all of this but you would be foolish not to use this to your advantage. last year I hated getting that $600 stimulus check that Bush authorized, but i cashed it and spent it.....on $4 gas What car are you looking to get?
#1558 of 4110 Re: Tangential bit of information [kdhspyder] by dtownfb Jul 10, 2009 (10:06 am)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 9:59 am) Be nice kdhspyder. if my vehicle had qualified, I most certainly would have taken advantage of this program. but my Intrigue (178k miles) was too efficient.
#1559 of 4110 Re: Scrap Value Received under Program [steve_] by kdhspyder Jul 10, 2009 (10:10 am)
Replying to: steve_ (Jul 10, 2009 9:56 am) I sincerely doubt that, steve, but it's not absolutely clear either. The dealer gets nothing from the scrapper unless he can negotiate some deal to share in the scrap values...or unless the dealer dismantles the vehicle prior to sending the frame and engine to the scrapper. This is something that the trader could do on his own as well if he has the interest and wherewithall to do it. Dealers usually don't have any specific knowledge of what scrapped parts bring 'at retail'. They only have auction values from the Black Book and other sources. This is one of the multitude of clarifications that will be made in the next several days.