Cash for Clunkers - Good or Bad Idea?

4110 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42 AM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Legislation, Truck, Sedan, Wagon, SUV

For questions about how the program works or to discuss program details, please visit our discussion titled, "Cash for Clunkers - Does it Work for You?"

Outline

Messages Page 156 of 412: 1; ...; 153; 154; 155; 156; 157; 158; 159; ...; 412; Prev; Next; Last

#1544 of 4110 "those who forget history are...." by Mr_Shiftright HOST Jul 10, 2009 (7:48 am)
do Americans have the attention span of a gerbil? Here we are in a HUGE financial mess and I see some media commentators suggesting we do the same exact things that got us so screwed up in the first place. As if the past 8 years never happened. Unbelievable, simply unbelievable. Hey, ONE BRIGHT SPOT! --- The new Camaro is a big hit (so far). This model, in one month, outsold the entire Buick or Cadillac division. $60 billion? That's only 6.5 months in Iraq and might be worth hundreds of thousands of jobs. Relatively speaking, a good gamble. I don't think many people realize the utter, total catastrophe of the annihilation of GM, should it have happened suddenly and without preparation. I would hazard to say that even civil unrest would not have been out of the realm of possibility. Replies to this message: srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 8:26 am) Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 8:39 am) srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 9:18 am) and 11 more... doggie76 (Jul 10, 2009 8:44 am) dave8697 (Jul 10, 2009 9:10 am) xrunner2 (Jul 10, 2009 9:22 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 11:27 am) srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 12:13 pm) lemko (Jul 10, 2009 8:56 am)
#1545 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [Mr_Shiftright] by srs_49 Jul 10, 2009 (8:26 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 7:48 am) I don't think many people realize the utter, total catastrophe of the annihilation of GM, should it have happened suddenly and without preparation. I would hazard to say that even civil unrest would not have been out of the realm of possibility I'm not sure I buy into that. The country survived layoffs and the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in the aerospace industry back in the early 90s because of mergers and defense cutbacks. Hard to see how the demise of GM would have been worse, even with the more optimistic (higher) estimates of jobs that are directly or indirectly tied to Detroit. The best of GM would have survived in some form even if it had undergone a more radical form of bankruptcy. The best plants would have been bought by someone. All the workers would have been let go, the existing contracts voided, and workers could then have applied for their old jobs under a lower cost wage structure. Sort of like what happens when a public school gets reconstituted for poor performance. Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 8:39 am) srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 9:18 am) Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 10:14 am) and 8 more... kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 11:35 am) lemko (Jul 13, 2009 4:40 am) doggie76 (Jul 10, 2009 8:44 am) dave8697 (Jul 10, 2009 9:10 am) xrunner2 (Jul 10, 2009 9:22 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 11:27 am) srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 12:13 pm)
#1546 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [srs_49] by Mr_Shiftright HOST Jul 10, 2009 (8:39 am)
Replying to: srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 8:26 am) Well you don't live in Ohio or Michigan I presume, so the impact might not be as shocking to you. Remember, we were talking about the SUDDEN and immediate collapse of a huge regional industrial base, not a gradual decline with time for re-alignments. It's more like BOOM, you are all unemployed, and if Ohio or Michigan, probably unemployed for years. I think you also have to take into account the symbolic value of the total, sudden, shocking annihilation of General Motors and its affect upon the prestige and public attitudes of America as a whole. It would have been incredibly depressive...because if GM can disappear overnight, how about other giants? How about YOU? Replies to this message: srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 9:18 am) Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 10:14 am) steve_ (Jul 10, 2009 10:22 am) and 1 more... erniesdad (Jul 10, 2009 11:12 am) and 1 more... srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 12:20 pm) and 2 more... isellhondas (Jul 10, 2009 5:23 pm) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 11:35 am) lemko (Jul 13, 2009 4:40 am)
#1547 of 4110 Sales tax of C4C by doggie76 Jul 10, 2009 (8:44 am)
Replying to: srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 8:26 am) Will the $4500 be treated as a trade in or rebate for sales tax purposes when I buy a new car? Any real answers? Not just guesses please. I've been to the cars.gov site, but no answers on this... Thanks
#1548 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [gagrice] by british_rover Jul 10, 2009 (8:55 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 6:06 am) Come don't do that. Don't selectively pick the one or two articles about Georgia when every other article on that page talks about how the rate for new unemployment claims went down. Now who is spinning.
#1549 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [Mr_Shiftright] by lemko Jul 10, 2009 (8:56 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 7:48 am) You best believe I'd be rioting if I could no longer get a new Cadillac or Buick!!!
#1550 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [srs_49] by dave8697 Jul 10, 2009 (9:10 am)
Replying to: srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 8:26 am) today there was an article about a 52 YO woman who luckily landed a job at an auto parts supplier making $8 an hour. Her lucky husband also recently landed a full time job at Walmart. Americans have been saving money and paying off debt like crazy now for over a year. Their debt has fallen from 13.9 Trillion to 13.8 Trillion. A hundred Billion dollar drop. Another 50 years and we can start spending again. The stimulus is spun by conservatives as not doing it's required job. It turns out to be a stealth wealth redistribution. Better that poor people get free health care than banks get bonus money? Both come at the future taxation on my children. Most of the news is meant to be a distraction.. M.J., C4C, bonuses. Cap and trade is wealth redist. also. An excuse to send poor people $400 apiece each year. So now we are getting worse but at a slower pace? Awesome job BO Replies to this message: xrunner2 (Jul 10, 2009 9:22 am)
#1551 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [Mr_Shiftright] by srs_49 Jul 10, 2009 (9:18 am)
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 8:39 am) Well, my area survived the demise of the US steel industry (Bethlehem Steel to be exact), the moving of banks to Delaware, and the closing of the local GM facility, to name just a few. Yes, those closings hurt certain areas harder than others, but we are still here! I'm don't agree with your "symbolic value". GM's reputation has been on a downward decline for years. The prestige of America, if it is tied to any industry, is more tied to that of Boeing, Microsoft, and Intel than it ever will be to the D3/2. GM should have disappeared (maybe allowed to fade away is a better way to put it) years ago, way before it was able to accumulate $60+ billion in debt. That would have spread the pain out over years Replies to this message: Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 10:14 am) steve_ (Jul 10, 2009 10:22 am) Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 11:20 am) erniesdad (Jul 10, 2009 11:12 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 12:01 pm) srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 12:20 pm) Mr_Shiftright (Jul 10, 2009 12:39 pm) and 1 more... isellhondas (Jul 10, 2009 5:23 pm) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 11:35 am) lemko (Jul 13, 2009 4:40 am)
#1552 of 4110 Re: "those who forget history are...." [dave8697] by xrunner2 Jul 10, 2009 (9:22 am)
Replying to: dave8697 (Jul 10, 2009 9:10 am) So now we are getting worse but at a slower pace? Awesome job BO The worsening trend is improving.
#1553 of 4110 Re: Scrap Value Received under Program [windsurferk] by kdhspyder Jul 10, 2009 (9:51 am)
Replying to: windsurferk (Jul 10, 2009 5:20 am) This paragraph is not well-written but I think that it's written to give the consumer a sense of confidence that his or her clunker really is a clunker. How so? As I read it this means that when you and your Dad go in to have the vehicle appraised the dealer has to tell you what the estimated scrap value is. YOU DO NOT GET ANY CREDIT FOR THIS SCRAP VALUE!! Most people are smart enough to have a good idea of what their trade is worth. If it's a 97 Explorer V8 with 150,000 on the clock it's scrap value is about $500. This is the number that has to be disclosed. The more common situation would be when somebody trades in a 2002 Explorer V8 and the vehicle is 'worth' $5000 at scrap. THIS is the situation why the dealer must disclose the trade in value. Taking the $4500 voucher for a $5000 vehicle isn't smart. No one should be encouraged to do so. Again you get no credit for the scrap value as I read it. If you want some of this 'scrap value' then take out the 'sellable' parts yourself before giving it to the dealer. This is perfectly above board as long as the vehicle is still legal to be driven on the road. Replies to this message: steve_ (Jul 10, 2009 9:56 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 10:10 am)