Cash for Clunkers - Good or Bad Idea?

4110 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 11:42 AM

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#1520 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [gagrice] by kdhspyder Jul 09, 2009 (4:14 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 09, 2009 3:37 pm) Actually the way I read this article was this. BILLIONS GO TO AREAS THAT DIDN'T SUPPORT OBAMA Can you imagine that?? It's shocking. Here let me set your hair on fire. Not only has Paul Krugman called for more stimulus but so also has the Saint of American Business.... http://www.cnbc.com/id/31828467 Legendary investor Warren Buffett said in an interview aired on Thursday unemployment could hit 11 percent and a second stimulus package might be needed as the economy struggles to recover from recession. Replies to this message: dave8697 (Jul 09, 2009 4:39 pm) gagrice (Jul 09, 2009 4:48 pm) kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 6:59 pm) dodgeman07 (Jul 09, 2009 7:26 pm) and 3 more... gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 5:29 am)
#1521 of 4110 Re: Tangential bit of information [maryh3] by kdhspyder Jul 09, 2009 (4:18 pm)
Replying to: maryh3 (Jul 09, 2009 3:21 pm) Serious question. Will you hold a grudge against GM forever because it begged for Federal assistance? If next year the Feds conduct a successful IPO and we recover all or most of our money and GM 'goes free' will you forgive it? Replies to this message: srs_49 (Jul 10, 2009 2:44 am) steve_ (Jul 10, 2009 7:27 am) maryh3 (Jul 10, 2009 5:44 am) gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 5:54 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 9:59 am) dtownfb (Jul 10, 2009 10:06 am) dtownfb (Jul 10, 2009 10:03 am) hpmctorque (Jul 10, 2009 2:11 pm) erniesdad (Jul 10, 2009 6:55 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 10:45 am) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 11:08 am) british_rover (Jul 10, 2009 11:18 am)
#1522 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [kdhspyder] by dave8697 Jul 09, 2009 (4:39 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 4:14 pm) so out of 787 billion, billions (as in more than 1 billion) have fallen into blue counties?
#1523 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [gagrice] by british_rover Jul 09, 2009 (4:48 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 09, 2009 3:37 pm) Oh I know I shouldn't but I just can't resist. The current president doesn't respect the Constitution? Seriously you can say that with a straight face err type it I mean. After the past eight years seriously really come on you can't believe that? Can you? Oh god I bet you do. Also I have heard this story reported over and over today but I just don't get it. So cities aren't getting as much stimulus aid as rural areas. but Where is the traditional democratic support base? Let me answer that for you. CITIES Republicans almost always do better in rural areas. Seems to me like the world is upside down. I am going to need to see a lot more data, preferably unmassaged data, before I buy this report. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jul 09, 2009 7:32 pm) joegiant (Jul 10, 2009 1:56 am)
#1524 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [kdhspyder] by gagrice Jul 09, 2009 (4:48 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 4:14 pm) Nice try at covering for Barry. Won't work. Most of the posters here know his modus operandi. Why not more stimulus. The first $800 billion has not stopped the loss of jobs. How many people do you know that have gotten a job as a result of that massive waste of money? I know one teacher that got a 6 month job as a result. It is to help the uneducated to write a resume. It was pushed through a brain dead Congress as creating jobs fixing roads and bridges. Well in fact only $3.3 billion is allocated for infrastructure. Personally I will keep a large tough SUV, as I am sure our third World roads will not be improved by Barry's huge waste of money we do not have. Warren is getting senile as noted by his tumbling stock. My Fidelity has done better over the last year than Berkshire Hathaway. Of course he wants more stimulus. He got Billions on the Morgan deal. Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 6:59 pm) dodgeman07 (Jul 09, 2009 7:26 pm) british_rover (Jul 10, 2009 5:47 am) and 2 more... gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 5:29 am)
#1525 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [kdhspyder] by hpmctorque Jul 09, 2009 (6:05 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 3:47 pm) "...But there is much much more to the picture here. There are all the suppliers to the B2 and all their jobs. Make the B2 disappear and all those jobs are gone too....at least at this time in these economic conditions. Then there are all the downstream jobs that would be affected. Between the B2 there were nearly 10,000 dealerships in NA. If each one only employed 50 people that's 500,000 jobs you've just made disappear." This is just plain wrong. People would continue to buy cars if GM and Chrysler filed for bankruptcy, and someone would produce the cars to meet the demand. The survivors or newly formed auto companies would buy from suppliers, as needed, and the cars would be sold through dealers. If allowed to work, our market system, together with our democratic institutions, rule of law, respect for human rights, etc., though not perfect, perhaps, have a great ability for renewal and regeneration. Too much intervention, while well intentioned, can interfere with the renewal process, and end up causing more misery. The debate between those with a liberal orientation and those with a conservative one (for want of better terms) is endless. It's almost as if we're hard wired in our beliefs. Sure, conservatives may occasionally concede some points to liberals, and visa-versa, but the core beliefs rarely change. I sometimes wonder if some of the concessions aren't offered to demonstrate objectivity and flexibility, rather than out of conviction. One of the factors responsible for dragging these discussions on without resolution is the use of half-truths. The skillful use of half-truths can be very persuasive in scoring debating points. Anyhow, Bob, this is a long way of saying that it's highly unlikely that you and I will succeed in changing each other's mind. That might not be such a bad thing, though, because there would be no need for discussions if everyone agreed on everything. Can we agree on that? Replies to this message: kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 7:13 pm) steve_ (Jul 09, 2009 7:28 pm) hpmctorque (Jul 09, 2009 7:42 pm) andres3 (Jul 10, 2009 1:36 pm) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 1:44 pm) and 46 more... british_rover (Jul 10, 2009 1:47 pm) and 16 more...
#1526 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [gagrice] by kdhspyder Jul 09, 2009 (6:59 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jul 09, 2009 4:48 pm) Actually it's you who is in a very shrinking minority according to most polls. Did you expect to see massive changes in 3 months? Well maybe YOU did. I'm sure that YOU thought that massive infrastructure projects would simply leap off the drawing boards and into full production before summer. According to Krugman and Buffett the $787 Billion is only about 2/3rds of what is actually needed. THAT'S probably why you haven't seen immediate results. Rest assured though, things have turned around and they're getting better. Replies to this message: dodgeman07 (Jul 09, 2009 7:26 pm) british_rover (Jul 10, 2009 5:47 am) gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 6:06 am) and 1 more... gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 5:29 am)
#1527 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [hpmctorque] by kdhspyder Jul 09, 2009 (7:13 pm)
Replying to: hpmctorque (Jul 09, 2009 6:05 pm) Yes we will have to agree to disagree. I had the same opinion last fall before the depths of the crisis hit, that demand and jobs would simply move to the survivors. Then I saw how really bad it was. To kill off GM and Chrysler at that time would have created an economic crater in the midwest because the other survivors, primarily Ford-Toyota-Honda, were in no condition to absorb the shift. It was too much too suddenly. It would have been truly horrendous at the local levels where every GM and Chrysler store in N America would have been effectively put out of business on Jan 1...BLAM!. If this had happened over a period of a couple of years where first one then the other went belly up - in a stronger market situation - then I'd agree that the job losses could have been managed. But not in Dec/Jan/Feb in the depths of our dark winter of economic collapse. The way it's working out is actually a brilliant and effective solution given the short timeframe. Both may survive and actually be stronger with a minimal loss in jobs in the country. Replies to this message: steve_ (Jul 09, 2009 7:28 pm) hpmctorque (Jul 09, 2009 7:42 pm) andres3 (Jul 10, 2009 1:36 pm) kdhspyder (Jul 10, 2009 1:44 pm) andres3 (Jul 10, 2009 1:52 pm) and 44 more... sf2 (Jul 10, 2009 10:19 pm) british_rover (Jul 10, 2009 1:47 pm) andres3 (Jul 10, 2009 2:03 pm) and 4 more... andres3 (Jul 10, 2009 2:07 pm) gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 2:40 pm) and 9 more...
#1528 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [kdhspyder] by dodgeman07 Jul 09, 2009 (7:26 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 6:59 pm) Rest assured though, things have turned around and they're getting better. ////////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\- \\\\ The liberal media have been feeding us that line for over three months now and it's pure propaganda. There is no credible evidence that anything has "turned around or gotten better" in this year. The credit markets and the economy as a whole is still are in a state of crisis and will likely remain there for the foreseeable future. Think 2011 and then we'll START to things really getting better. In the second half of '09 (likely by September) we'll see how big a hole we're really in. It's an enormous, $5 trillion dollar plus, hole that will take years to recover from. A robust economy is years away. Sorry. Replies to this message: british_rover (Jul 10, 2009 5:47 am) gagrice (Jul 10, 2009 6:06 am) british_rover (Jul 10, 2009 8:55 am)
#1529 of 4110 Re: Someone pays for it. [kdhspyder] by steve_ HOST Jul 09, 2009 (7:28 pm)
Replying to: kdhspyder (Jul 09, 2009 7:13 pm) It's still a pretty big crater. Supplier Lear Files for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Deadline Set for Delphi Bidders; Auction Scheduled Reorganizing should be an easier pill than liquidation though.