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Hybrid Vehicles Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan Hybrid Article Comments - 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid Full Test
79 messages, Last post on Aug 20, 2009 at 3:49 PM
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2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid Full Test - Bottom Line: The Fusion Hybrid is the first truly competitive hybrid sedan from a domestic manufacturer. (more)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 21, 2009 1:10 pm) I didn't know the Escape Hybrid had been out that long. I thought it came out after the Camry Hybrid which came out in May 2006 (I had #5xx)
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Jan 22, 2009 8:37 am) I can't agree with your slamming Car and Driver magazine. They are fantastic. Not perfect, but great. You could say Motor Trend is off quite a bit, but not Car and Driver. Those guys test the heck out of cars, and they are in bed with no one. They are brutal at times when they need to be. Edmunds needs to simply copy, if they can, Car and Drivers techniques, using more experienced people, as they are not at the same high level as C and D. Frankly, I don't know how anyone can stand driving Toyota cars. I've driven several rental Toyotas (Camry, Avalon) in recent years, and the steering is mushy and wallowy. I noticed this crappy steering first, then read some car reviews where that was noted, too. Toyota ought to make steering that feels more like BMW or whats on my Volvo-derived Ford Freestyle, having a firm, in-control feel to it. The Prius also gets slammed for wandering, mushy, numb steering. To me steering is important on a car. |
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 22, 2009 4:48 pm) I will admit I was somewhat disappointed at first with the Camry Hybrid handling. Then as I grew to appreciate the abilities of averaging 37+ mpg I found myself driving in a manner that the handling was more than adequate. I traded an Infiniti FX45 for the TCH. I made a conscious decision to make that change and to accept a different standard of driving. Obviously a lot of people don't mind driving Toyota's. They don't drive them because they are cheaper than the competition because they are not. They drive them because they are reliable. I've never really understood until I owned the TCH how people can drive cars they are not passionate about. I loved cars. But I now have an appreciation of just how good of a car the TCH was. I'm guessing the Fusion Hybrid will provide a more satisfying driving experience. However I'll reserve my impression of the FE after I see realworld results showing up in GreenHybrid or some other FE comparison database. Bottom line is if it can't deliver 35+ I wouldn't consider it over the TCH, a proven, reliable hybrid. If it does, then it will be on my short list of considerations. |
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 22, 2009 4:48 pm) Hard to believe Ford has not yet met the 60,000 vehicle limit for the reduced tax credit yet.
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Jan 23, 2009 4:28 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 23, 2009 8:49 pm) |
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I was wondering why the Camry hybrid has such pathetic MPG compared to the Fusion Hybrid. It could be a more powerful, more advanced battery pack, and better engine control software in the Fusion vs. the less capable Camry. Anybody have any idea why the Camry gets beat so badly in this critical area for a hybrid? How did Ford engineers create a superior product?
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 19, 2009 6:05 pm) There is a non-hybrid Prius !!!  It's called the Matrix!! Both are 4 cyl, 5 door hatchbacks with the same room inside. With the same equipment the Matrix lists for $4400 less then the Pruis. It's a perfect valid option for those not interested in the Prius. Performance is similar. Cost-wise over any chosen period of ownership and 'normal' mileage of 15000 annually the two vehicles cost the same at the end of the ownership period.
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 24, 2009 1:46 pm) Typically the actual values by everyday drivers such as those stated wvgas are 5-10% above the new EPA values....on average. The typical Prius driver gets 48 mpg whereas the EPA value is 46 The typical TCH driver gets 37 mpg whereas the EPA value is 34 The typical HCH driver gets 45 mpg whereas the EPA value is 42 Thus I'd expect the typical FFH driver to get 41 mpg whereas the EPA value is 38 As to why the FFH get such better values today as compared to the TCH you hit the nail on the head, it's a newer model with newer technology. That's pretty easy to determine. The I4 in the Camry is based on late 90s technology introduced in 2001. The Camry will get it's new I4 engine next month. Then after the G3 Prius is released in the Spring the TCH should get the updated HSD this time next year. These overlapping launches/leaps occur all the time in every product. One vehicle jumps ahead of the pack then the rest jump over it and the cycle repeats. The FFH has hit an overhead smash into Toyota's court. Toyota has to react. That's the auto business.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 24, 2009 2:05 pm) Therefore, Toyota could just sell us a more fuel efficient vehicle than similarly-sized Toyotas like the Corolla/Matrix by simply deleting the batteries and elect motors out of the Prius. A non-hybrid Prius. Believe me, losing 400 lbs of junk in the Prius means you would need a smaller 4-cylinder gas engine for the non-hybrid Prius, and only having to equal the abysmal 0-60 mph accel times of 11 seconds of a Hybrid Prius means a small gas engine would do, further increasing MPG over a Corolla/Matrix. Add direct injection and start/stop and MPG goes up further still, all without batteries/motors. Since this is a Fusion Hybrid discussion thread forum, Ford could continue to increase the gas mileage of its good non-hybrid Fusion 4-cylinder by going to an aluminum roof structure (similar to Mitsubishi's Outlander), direct injection, and start/stop tech, possibly adding only about $1,500 to the cost of a basic Fusion for this non-hybrid tech. The main point is that all this hybrid tech we see is geat for high-mileage, mostly city driving type of usage, but non-battery, non-electricMotor normal cars with CVTs or 6-speed automatics, direct injection, more aluminum, can make normal cars get great MPG. Actually, the car companies will shortly be forced to make these logical engineering decisions with the tougher EPA MPG Cafe averages looming.
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