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Sedans Acura TL 2009 Acura TL vs Hyundai Genesis
31 messages, Last post on May 30, 2009 at 7:06 AM
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Replying to: cebteb (Apr 18, 2009 4:48 pm)
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Apr 26, 2009 3:41 pm) Here in the front range in Colorado, there are lots of grades to drive w/o even venturing into the mountains, so RWD cars are basically summer cars unless you want to use chains (bad idea) or studded snow tires (not legal many places and really lousy to ride on). FWD with all season tires is about the minimum for winter driving here.
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Replying to: cebteb (Apr 27, 2009 10:17 am) Equipping FWD with winter tires should be adequate for most winter driving situations, but your driving needs may indeed require AWD.
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Replying to: cebteb (Apr 27, 2009 10:17 am) Traction and stability control has pretty much fixed those problems. The advantage of FWD cars is that many of them have a 60/40 weight distribution that gives more traction to the drive wheels. If you put 1000 lbs in the trunk of a 2 ton RWD drive car, you can achieve the equivalent 40/60 ratio (not that I would recommend doing that). Of course a 60/40 weight distribution typically induces horrible understeer that degrades cornering ability, but is safer for poor drivers.
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Replying to: hpmctorque (May 04, 2009 1:14 pm) My first bad experience with a RWD here was in 1980 when I ended up doing a 360 on the transition from I225 to I70 during morning rush hour. God was with me as no one hit me. Had an '85 RWD Nissan 300ZX Turbo in winter driving from '85 through '91 with snow tires and sometime light chains. Chains damaged my wheel wells. Had to abandon my car during a snow storm on a local road. No RWD for me here except maybe as a summer car only. Final note, our local newspaper's auto column guy (been in the car business since the 50s) was testing a high priced, European, luxury sedan a couple of years ago in the winter and ripped them in his review because they couldn't get the car out of his driveway due to the slick surface. He ended up getting a different brand vehicle to test that week for his Saturday Drive column.
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Replying to: pafromfl (May 05, 2009 5:57 am) The weight over the drive wheels and the stability of pulling instead of pushing is what make FWD superior to RWD in slick and/or snowy conditions. My first FWD car was a '91 Oldsmobile Omega V6. I know it was a POC, but during the 4 years and 82K miles that it lasted, it pulled me through metro-Denver during the great storm of Christmas 1982. I drove all across town, maybe 40 miles past stuff city buses and delivery trucks as well as hundreds of cars without a problem. My journey didn't end until a quarter mile from my house where I high-centered it in over 3 feet of snow. As my wife always says when the manufacturers come out with another new RWD car, "why do they keep trying to sell those "California" cars in the snow belt and in Colorado". I guess life's lessons need to be relearned by each generation.
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Replying to: cebteb (May 05, 2009 5:52 pm) It is likely that the expensive European sedan wore summer performance tires and had a 50/50 weight distribution. Traction and stability control would have subdued fishtailing if the car ever got enough traction to move. To operate a heavy high-performance (i.e. RWD) car in snow, you need all-season or winter tires. More weight in the trunk yields better traction at the expense of handling.
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Replying to: pafromfl (May 05, 2009 9:07 pm) It also reduces fuel economy and tire wear. I'd consider chains before extra weight. If RWD offers insufficient traction on a frequent basis, then FWD or AWD should be considered. The important factor to consider when selecting a car is that every drive configuration has significant tradeoffs. Therefore, each configuration is a compromise. All too often, buyers don't match their driving requirements with the attributes and drawbacks of the available configurations, and end up with a poor choice. Incidentally, I lived in Wisconsin for many years, so I'm very familiar with winter driving conditions. Unlike Colorado, however, Wisconsin has hills, but no mountains. |
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Replying to: cebteb (May 05, 2009 5:42 pm) Sounds to me like the guy that's been in the business 50 years doesn't know that snow tires were needed. I have generally seen where RWD with snows can't make it up and incline neither can FWD with all-seasons. And I have seen plenty of FWD spin out in the winter. On ice, all bets are off. I drove a European sports sedan for a few years in the snow with all-season tires. I never fishtailed or got stuck. Where you live it sounds like the vehicle of choice is a 4WD Jeep or equivalent. Forget FWD, RWD and AWD.
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Replying to: kdshapiro (May 06, 2009 9:26 am) I currently drive an on-demand AWD SUV while the wife drives a '99 Chrysler 300M (FWD). We get around quite nicely in winter with all season radials. No we don't try to drive in 3 feet of fresh snow like we get here about every 5 years or so, but 6" of fresh or the standard "icy and snow packed roads" don't give us any problems even on fairly steep inclines. In another post I described my cross-town drive after one of our record snow storms in December '82 in my first FWD car ('81 Citation). No problems until I finally high centered it in over 3 feet of fresh snow and that was with all season radials. The weight over the drive wheels makes all the difference. Those, like you, who like to believe that the problems of RWD in winter driving have some how been miraculously solved are doomed on our roads in winter to either not going at all or getting started and then getting stuck or ending up in the ditches along the road shoulders. FWD isn't a panacea, but it is much better in winter here than any RWD. I've been on the front range in Colorado since '77 and I grew up in Chicago during the 50s and 60s, so I'm well aware of winter driving issues both in the flatlands and where their are hills and mountains to climb (I'm a skier, so I hit the mountains frequently in the winter). My wife is from So-Cal and has been here since '86. She had her own winter adventures here with California cars on Colorado winter roads and she'd never let me replace her 300M with a RWD car no matter how nice it looked unless I bought it for her to use as a summer car only. Not likely on my pension and SS and her small paycheck. I showed her the Hyundai Genesis at the auto show in April and told her about all the high praise and buzz the car was getting. She thought it looked nice, but then asked about the drive wheels. RWD, she didn't even bother to get into the display model. She's kind of zeroed in on the Acura TL now and we will have to wait until her test drives before we know if it will be FWD or AWD, as she doesn't like a really firm ride. |
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