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Sedans Acura TL 2009 Acura TL vs Hyundai Genesis
31 messages, Last post on May 30, 2009 at 7:06 AM
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Replying to: cebteb (May 05, 2009 5:52 pm) It is likely that the expensive European sedan wore summer performance tires and had a 50/50 weight distribution. Traction and stability control would have subdued fishtailing if the car ever got enough traction to move. To operate a heavy high-performance (i.e. RWD) car in snow, you need all-season or winter tires. More weight in the trunk yields better traction at the expense of handling.
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Replying to: pafromfl (May 05, 2009 9:07 pm) It also reduces fuel economy and tire wear. I'd consider chains before extra weight. If RWD offers insufficient traction on a frequent basis, then FWD or AWD should be considered. The important factor to consider when selecting a car is that every drive configuration has significant tradeoffs. Therefore, each configuration is a compromise. All too often, buyers don't match their driving requirements with the attributes and drawbacks of the available configurations, and end up with a poor choice. Incidentally, I lived in Wisconsin for many years, so I'm very familiar with winter driving conditions. Unlike Colorado, however, Wisconsin has hills, but no mountains. |
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Replying to: cebteb (May 05, 2009 5:42 pm) Sounds to me like the guy that's been in the business 50 years doesn't know that snow tires were needed. I have generally seen where RWD with snows can't make it up and incline neither can FWD with all-seasons. And I have seen plenty of FWD spin out in the winter. On ice, all bets are off. I drove a European sports sedan for a few years in the snow with all-season tires. I never fishtailed or got stuck. Where you live it sounds like the vehicle of choice is a 4WD Jeep or equivalent. Forget FWD, RWD and AWD.
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Replying to: kdshapiro (May 06, 2009 9:26 am) I currently drive an on-demand AWD SUV while the wife drives a '99 Chrysler 300M (FWD). We get around quite nicely in winter with all season radials. No we don't try to drive in 3 feet of fresh snow like we get here about every 5 years or so, but 6" of fresh or the standard "icy and snow packed roads" don't give us any problems even on fairly steep inclines. In another post I described my cross-town drive after one of our record snow storms in December '82 in my first FWD car ('81 Citation). No problems until I finally high centered it in over 3 feet of fresh snow and that was with all season radials. The weight over the drive wheels makes all the difference. Those, like you, who like to believe that the problems of RWD in winter driving have some how been miraculously solved are doomed on our roads in winter to either not going at all or getting started and then getting stuck or ending up in the ditches along the road shoulders. FWD isn't a panacea, but it is much better in winter here than any RWD. I've been on the front range in Colorado since '77 and I grew up in Chicago during the 50s and 60s, so I'm well aware of winter driving issues both in the flatlands and where their are hills and mountains to climb (I'm a skier, so I hit the mountains frequently in the winter). My wife is from So-Cal and has been here since '86. She had her own winter adventures here with California cars on Colorado winter roads and she'd never let me replace her 300M with a RWD car no matter how nice it looked unless I bought it for her to use as a summer car only. Not likely on my pension and SS and her small paycheck. I showed her the Hyundai Genesis at the auto show in April and told her about all the high praise and buzz the car was getting. She thought it looked nice, but then asked about the drive wheels. RWD, she didn't even bother to get into the display model. She's kind of zeroed in on the Acura TL now and we will have to wait until her test drives before we know if it will be FWD or AWD, as she doesn't like a really firm ride. |
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Replying to: cebteb (May 09, 2009 10:16 am) How has your overall experience been with the 300M? In '99 my wife and I debated between a 300M and a TL, and decided on the TL. We've never regretted our decision, but the 300M had some attributes over the TL, such as interior roominess and a large trunk. I rented a 300M once, and it drove well.
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Replying to: cebteb (May 09, 2009 10:16 am) Someone needs driving lessons. I drove a RWD car with snows, without TC in Buffalo for 3 years. I know all about driving in the snow with RWD and snow tires. Clearly FWD with all-seasons due to weight distribution is better than RWD with all-seasons. Put snows on the RWD, it's a different story. In my neighboorhood some of the houses have steep driveways. One neighboor has a 3 series, which has snows in the winter and an Accord. After a storm a couple of years ago, I laughed (silently) as I drove by the house. The Accord and 3 series were both at the bottom of the driveway. I've also seen FWD cars have trouble making a particular turn up a steep incline in my development. I had no problem in my 3 series with (new) all-seasons, however AWD/4WD climb that incline like they have nails in the tires. These days I need to drive my car in any weather without worrying about getting stuck so I drive an AWD. So your experience is not my experience and we can agree to disagree. /ot |
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While snow driving is important, this topic is supposed to be about comparing the Genesis to the Acura TL OVERALL, not about RWD vs. FWD/AWD and driving in snow. These are the top two cars I am comparing right now, so more information on how they compare would be appreciated. Thanks,
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Replying to: carolinabob (May 10, 2009 8:10 am) If you live in a warm weather climate, then other factors come into play. Consumer Reports likes the Genesis better than the TL, but notes that Acura has a much better reliability record than Hyundai. Read the CR issue (last November I think) where both cars were tested along with the road tests here on Edmonds. CR has some issues with the TL that are valid (small trunk), could be an issue to some (little steering feel w/ electronic steering; however, could this type of steering be the norm in a few years / typical Honda/Acura road noise), and aren't supported by looking at the car yourself (back seat room and comfort; I thought is was a big upgrade over the prior TL, but CR thought it wasn't as good). CR's main issue with the Genesis is ride quality, calling it unsettled, whatever that means. Guess you need to test drive it to see whether it is an issue for you. It can be had with a lot more power than the TL, but both the basic engine and large engine get poorer mileage than the TL. It is roomier than the TL if you think the TL is too small. Roominess can be objective and subjective. I think the 2009 TL is a lot roomier than the earlier versions and a lot roomier than either the Infinity G37 or Cadillac CTS, but others might disagree. Go sit in a TL and a Genesis and decide for yourself if roominess is a factor. Finally, if winter driving, gas mileage, reliability, and maybe ride aren't factors to you, then I think you can get a lot more car for the money with the Genesis. |
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Replying to: hpmctorque (May 10, 2009 6:03 am) Well, it has been a 10 year love/hate relationship with the 300M. On the love side is still the exterior and interior look of the prior generation 300M. We still get looks in a parking lot when it is shined up. Also love the interior appointments and design and the huge trunk. Very comfortable and roomy. Power is more than adequate and the tranny is very smooth shifting for only a 4-speed automatic. It handles very nicely as well on a winding road at speed. On the hate side is the ride. Way too firm. My 2003 Olds Bravada SUV rides much smoother and it's a truck (it does have air springs in the rear though). Also, road noise is very prominent. As I understand it though, these issues were addressed and improved on in later years, so a 2002 or so 300M should ride smoother and be quieter inside. Mechanical faults started with the stock BadYear tires. Most were defective and no amount of the most sophisticated balancing could keep them from wobbling. We put some Yoko's on it and that finally solved the tire problem at about 20K miles. Then there is the strut mounts. We are on our third set in front, second in back (under 50K miles). They just break and crumble causing a serious ride impairment. We have a good shop for the third set and they are using high quality after market parts, so I think this is finally fixed. Then the brake rotors. After warping the originals and their Mopar replacements, we went with some Brembo high end rotors last year and solved that problem. So you can see why I say love/hate. But, even if everything with the tires and struts is as good as it gets, the ride is still way too firm and the cabin has way too much road noise.
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Replying to: cebteb (May 12, 2009 12:44 pm) I didn't notice the excessive road noise in the one I rented. Nor did my wife and I find the ride objectionable, but the one we rented for a couple of days of mixed driving was an '03 or '04. My then the insulation and ride may have been refined. |
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