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Were hybrids ever the silver bullet? - READ ONLY

46 messages,  Last post on Mar 14, 2009 at 7:32 PM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Prius, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid, Honda Civic, Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid, Mercury Mariner Hybrid, Saturn Aura Hybrid, Saturn VUE Hybrid, Nissan Altima Hybrid, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Truck, Sedan, SUV

Messages Page 5 of 5

#39 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [kdhspyder] by bpizzuti

Jan 16, 2009 (8:32 am)

Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 16, 2009 7:59 am)
Even if it is compared to the base powertrain at a $2000 premium does it make any rational sense to say 'I know it costs less up front but I like the idea of spending $2000 more overall to drive the non-hybrid.
 
That's not it at all. If it's a financial decision at all, it's "Do I want to spend $2000 more now and save $3000 over 5-7 years, or do I want to keep that $2000 in my pocket now?" Very different thing. Not being able to afford to pay extra now, no matter how much it might save you later, is also an economic decision.

#40 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [bpizzuti] by railroadjames

Jan 16, 2009 (11:03 am)

Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 16, 2009 8:32 am)
Somewhere in the vast number of posts here at various topics I explained that I saved over $10,000.00 in gas costs. That was a conservitive figure. No exaggeration. Just plain truth. This comparison was with a previous vehicle that got 16mpg's. After 6 yrs of trouble free miles and a ride that some say is rough but I say is decent and comfortable, my hiway miles seem to be a non-problem and just roll along. As to the car's quality, durability, and overall customer satisfaction, what can I say: Nearly 275,000 satified owners can't be wrong.
  As to Dealers that annoy and fail to present their product...well, all I can say is...When I walk into a dealers showroom I size up the salesmen. I look for one that gives me a fair amount of comfort zone or I ask around. There's almost always more than one person on the floor. Even Sales mgr's will often close a deal. I sold cars yrs ago for 4 yrs. A good salesman knows his product and that's the bottom line. I offer this too! I've owned well over 60 vehicles counting cars & cycles and never found anything that was as trouble free and dependable as my '04 Prius.

#41 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [railroadjames] by bpizzuti

Jan 16, 2009 (11:49 am)

Replying to: railroadjames (Jan 16, 2009 11:03 am)
This is another good example of it being a very individual situation. You got a GREAT amount of savings on gas from moving to a hybrid. Others with different driving habits might not.
 
Dealers...salesmen...bane of people's existence...maybe some are good but a lot of them....uhh, aren't. Unfortunately, in my area, a lot of them aren't. The Toyota guys around here are as arrogant as the Honda ones...and that's pretty arrogant. Only reason i MIGHT put up with the Honda salesmen is because of their product. I don't like Toyota's products enough to put up with the arrogance around here (same with the local Chevy dealers incidentally, though there's this one local PontiBuickGMC dealership that didn't catch a case of GM arrogance).

#42 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [railroadjames] by gagrice

Jan 16, 2009 (7:26 pm)

Replying to: railroadjames (Jan 16, 2009 11:03 am)
There's almost always more than one person on the floor. Even Sales mgr's will often close a deal.
 
My experience walking into car dealerships was not positive. I have found over the years that MOST car salesmen are clueless about what they sell. Only a few exceptions have I encountered. When I bought my Sequoia things were said that were untrue. What are you going to do after the fact? Same for GMC. Honda I could not get past the arrogance of my local dealer, losers. I remember all the promises from Toyota when it comes to putting hybrid drive train into the whole lineup. That was just cheap talk. There is no hybrid SUV worth considering in my sights. So in my opinion hybrids are just a LEAD bullet. Not a dud, just not practical for mainstream America.
 
I can shoot every hybrid comparison down for all but the few that drive more miles per year than Al Gore will allow with his Carbon Credit scam.
 
Quite frankly I was very surprised in this current market that Ford was still holding so tight to the MSRP on the Escape Hybrid. If they are in extremely short supply I guess that would be the answer. I think right now you can name your price on a 2009 Prius as the market is flooded with them. At least here in San Diego every dealer has a huge selection of every hybrid model.
 
Question, why would anyone pay $50k for a Highlander Hybrid?

#43 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [gagrice] by mellowguy

Mar 13, 2009 (9:35 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Jan 16, 2009 7:26 pm)
Most people don't know how and why to get bids on a vehicle and the dealers try to take advantage of that. Yes, the salesmen don't know what they should, but the manufacturers don't make all those details available either (try to find braking distance).
 
I gave up waiting for a hybrid minivan. Toyota isn't the only one failing to deliver product.
 
I don't know what you expect from a hybrid SUV, but GM and Chrysler have some models that will tow a large payload.
 
I think that it's hard to gear a hybrid for both on road and off road use.
 
Milage is the most important factor in getting a hybrid, but it's not the only one. Reduced brake wear and enhanced performance are also important.
 
A Highlander Hybrid isn't $50K, but some of the vehicles at the dealers may approach that MSRP because the vehicles are loaded with options that aren't needed. (You need to get a whole package for just one option.)

#44 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [mellowguy] by gagrice

Mar 14, 2009 (1:07 pm)

Replying to: mellowguy (Mar 13, 2009 9:35 pm)
Welcome to the Forum
 
I don't know what you expect from a hybrid SUV, but GM and Chrysler have some models that will tow a large payload.
 
I expect it to do what a non hybrid will do off and on road. The hybrids from GM give up about a third of the towing capacity. Not sure what would happen crossing a stream or driving up a sandy wash. I know Lexus says off roading the RX400h is a no no.
 
That and the premium is not worth the minimal mileage gain on the GM hybrids. You get a lot more bang for your buck with a diesel SUV.

#45 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [gagrice] by mellowguy

Mar 14, 2009 (6:40 pm)

Replying to: gagrice (Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm)
I expect it to do what a non hybrid will do off and on road. The hybrids from GM give up about a third of the towing capacity. Not sure what would happen crossing a stream or driving up a sandy wash. I know Lexus says off roading the RX400h is a no no.
 
Yes, the Yukon towing capacity drops from 8200 to 6000 lbs by going hybrid.
 
The electric motor may be geared wrong to help with towing.
 
The RX400h is a crossover vehicle, so I wouldn't expect it to be to handle rough situations.

#46 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [mellowguy] by gagrice

Mar 14, 2009 (7:32 pm)

Replying to: mellowguy (Mar 14, 2009 6:40 pm)
Here is the reality of the GM hybrid Yukon. I can buy a Mercedes GL320 CDI with more torque, better towing, superior handling, 25% better highway mileage, more luxury features for about the same price. I have a friend with the Mercedes that goes from Portland to San Diego average 75 MPH much of the trip and gets a consistent 27.9 MPG. That is over 700 miles on a tank of fuel. This is proven Mercedes technology vs trial and error GM hybrid technology. I am leaning toward the ML320 CDI that beat out the RX400h in a cross US mileage contest. It easily gets 30 MPG out on the highway. That is about 750 miles between fuel stops. 33% less fuel is what conservation and being green is all about.

Messages Page 5 of 5

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