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Toyota Prius, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid, Honda Civic, Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid, Mercury Mariner Hybrid, Saturn Aura Hybrid, Saturn VUE Hybrid, Nissan Altima Hybrid, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Truck, Sedan, SUV
#21 of 46 Re: Maybe "Silver Bullitt" But Better.."Mousetrap" [bpizzuti]
Jan 15, 2009 (11:15 am)
I'll overlook your digs and just pass facts along. Ford is well remembered in my "Past." Unfortunitly back in 2003 when I decided to investigate the hybrid market Ford was nowhere to be seen. On the other hand Honda & Toyota were deep in their commitment to break ground with a serious alturnitive to the gas hogs. GM and Ford were still pushing out 9 mpg Hummers & Excursions. Of course no one knew the runaway gas futures and how they would handcuff the world. Yeh, I remember Ford & also GM and even Chrysler. I've owned several of each. Some good and some a pure nightmare of lemons. Trannys that wouldn't last 50K. Power windows that wouldn't last 2 yrs. A.C. that failed long b/4 it should have. Then one day I test drove the Prius. My wife drove first while I sat in the back amazed at the roominess of this high tech hybrid. Much more roomy that a Buick Riviera. I began to enjoy near 50 mpg's and that was a Godsend.
As to my lawnmower engine, I have nearly 100K miles and have not a one problem. I've had the car up over 100mph and don't recall cutting any grass. I love to pass Excursions, Hummers, Escalades and gas-stations. Oh, and come to think of it, I saved over $10,000 during these 5 plus yrs of gas savings. FACT!
Lastly, I hope that the Big 3 get it together and can even match Toyota & Honda on product quality and warrantees. Time will tell.
Last point, check out the owners of Taxi Prius's in Vancouver, Canada. The Prius single-handedly saved their jobs. Many drivers praising the car piling up near 200K miles and thankfull for their existance. I do hope that your liking of the Ford Fusion Hybrid is worthy. I'll check it out sometime soon I hope. By the way ..What is it you drive? I'm curious. That's all.
#22 of 46 Re: Maybe "Silver Bullitt" But Better.."Mousetrap" [railroadjames]
Jan 15, 2009 (12:07 pm)
Mazda3. I do too much highway driving for a hybrid to be worth the price premium. But I'm both a gadget nut and work in the auto industry so I do follow the technology and the market. You really need to check Ford out again, they've really turned it around. My next car purchase may be a new Fusion, though likely the I4 rather than the hybrid.
Anyway, just as a point of reference, Consumer Reports dropped Toyota's auto-reliable status a while ago. I hear they're thinking of giving it to Ford, they've jumped that far in their reliability surveys. Ford is definitely game to go against the Camry Hybrid. If they decide to make a Focus hybrid it'd probably be game against the Prius.
GM on the other hand, i wouldn't count on.
#23 of 46 Re: Maybe "Silver Bullitt" But Better.."Mousetrap" [railroadjames]
Jan 15, 2009 (12:11 pm)
Railroadjames, thanks for the new battery prices, they are really coming down! I asked our dealer about that last year (April '08) and for our '06 HH, labor included, it will be about $6000 "as far as they know" because they have not had to do any and price could go up or down when they do the first one. So the official Toyota dealer best-guess then was $6000 for the '06 HH.
#24 of 46 Re: Maybe "Silver Bullitt" But Better.."Mousetrap" [bpizzuti]
Jan 15, 2009 (12:21 pm)
I have to agree that Ford is the most innovative of the three US auto giants. I really hope FOrd makes it and starts to catch up to the Japanese. Fuel-Electric hybrid is nothing new and Ford should be able to do this.
It will be so nice to see Ford come out with a Plug-In hybrid that can run the first 20 or 30 miles on electric alone at up to 60-MPH. Even in tough terrain, the juiced-up battery can still assist the gas engine resulting in significant savings. This will be something really worth looking into.
The quality issue is a tough one to overcome and only time will heal this wound. I was a Ford person since birth because my family came from MI and we had nothing but Ford cars. We were used to the tinkering, home-repairs and all such activities on weekends. When the engine became more computerized, home-service became difficult and the constant visit to shops (once a year, several days at a time) in addition to our own home-service starting at around 25000 miles began to grow old. We finally broke down and got a Toyota and was completely sold. Our '06 HH has 45K miles and not one day in the shop for repairs; NOT ONE. Our 129,000-mile '99 Sienna was in the shop once, to fix a steering rack problem; ONCE! The best part is I no longer waste weekends doing anything to the cars. We just hop in, start up and off we go.
I hope Ford catches up and starts earning these distinguished records. There is something homey about buying from Detroit again .
ps. Ford is really not just an "American" car company. It is more an international firm with manufacturing overseas. Toyota has factories hiring Americans right here at home. So "buying from Detroit" is about nostalgia, not about the often misleading "buy American" claim.
#25 of 46 Price Premium....Compare Closely
Jan 15, 2009 (1:07 pm)
I've heard this (what I call misconception) long enough. What with paying $21,456.00 out the door back in '04 and what with tax rebates, gas savings and ...hold it great resale value. I fail to see the arguement that a Prius is anything but a smart choice for purchase. There are countless other reasons to buy a Prius (and/or HH) What did your Mazda 3 sell for out the door? What year was it. I think that your choice was a good one because Mazdas are truly a sound investment.
p.s. The reliability that I stress so vehemently is litteraly the one area that Toyota has proven by buckets. Ask anyone that owns one and you'd be hard pressed to find less than confidence and satisfaction. Prius is a solid vehicle in these economically trying times. I'll be putting down a deposit on a 2010 very soon. Well, if my gov. checks don't start bouncing that is. I've enjoyed our fertile banter. Take care. I'm a retired Locomotive Engineer. I used to drive a kind of Hybrid Engine for the record. Diesel/ Electric. I really do miss the rails.
#26 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [railroadjames]
Jan 15, 2009 (1:33 pm)
Sorry but there is a "hybrid premium." A hybrid engine is an engine upgrade over the base engine, same as a V6. Only difference is, it's an engine upgrade designed to save fuel. However, it saves much MORE fuel with city driving than it does with highway driving, and 90% of my driving is highway. That makes it difficult to justify, for example, paying $26,000 (plus tax and fees) for a car that gets 36 MPG highway versus paying $20,000 for a car that gets 33MPG highway. I'm only going 3 extra miles per gallon...when driving a 110 mile a day commute, that's a drop in the bucket. Now, if that was 110 miles of city driving it'd be a different story, and I'd probably be getting 41 MPG or better, an extra 5 or more miles per gallon, which would REALLY add up. Now, tax rebates are another factor, but remember that the Prius doesn't get any anymore. Not sure if the Escape still does but the Fusion will. That might help.
Incidentally, my Mazda3 is a 2004 5-door..I was actually buying it to replaced a grenaded Chevy Corsica and was in a hurry, but I lucked out with finding the 3. Paid about $21,500 OTD myself. Really like it, but I bought it before I got this job with the long commute, and it's a bit punishing sometimes. Very interested in the Fusion as my next ride, though the Insight caught my eye (I like hatches).
#27 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [bpizzuti]
Jan 15, 2009 (7:42 pm)
I don't know where you get the impression that hiway driving is so reduced compared to city but your in for a rude awakening. My wife & I did an 8K trip to Montana and down to Utah and back to Valpo, Indiana. We averaged over 47 mpg's with the exception of the high mountains in Glacier Nat. Prk. Trips to Atlanta, Ga several times crowded 50 mpg's. Several times I've gotten 540 plus miles to a tank of gas (11 gal cap.) To tell the truth ...Short trips around town drop to 42-44 mpg's because the engine seldom warms up especially in real cold & frigid weather. It's 20 below as I write. Gosh I love my fireplace tonite. Like you I really like my hatchback. I have 2 dogs: one 70 lbs & one 105 lbs. It's easy access for them and cargo too. Lastly, remember that with a Prius Hybrid, with 2 drive motors that means after 100K miles the ICE engine worked only about 60 K miles and was duel assisted by and large much of the time with the Electric Mode. This is actually an asset when you consider traffic jams a big plus. When I'm sitting or crawling along in Electric Mode while a Hummer H2 is burning 10 mpg in the same framework I smile. I've gotten as high as 62 mpg's several times in this annoying trap. The Prius runs cooler too in extreem hot weather for obvious reasons. One other thing: the styling never seems to grow old considering that my 'o4 Prius looks just like an '09. What do they say? Don't mess with a good thing.
#28 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [railroadjames]
Jan 16, 2009 (3:00 am)
Well, I would never buy a Prius because I just strongly dislike Toyota.
#29 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [bpizzuti]
Jan 16, 2009 (5:06 am)
SIMPLY PUT: TO EACH HIS OWN!
P.S. Thanks to TOYOTA I've saved enough $$$$$ in gas savings to actually get out and vacation each yr. Remember when gas was $4.50 -$4.75? I watched as a woman in a 3/piece suit filled a Hummer to the tune of $130.00 plus while I came & went to the happy tune of a $32.00 fill-up. She was back in 300 miles to do it again where as I wouldn't do it till well after 500 plus miles. The "price premium" seems a matter of perspective.
#30 of 46 Re: Price Premium....Compare Closely [railroadjames]
Jan 16, 2009 (5:47 am)
Well, I don't like the way Toyota's drive, I don't like their interiors, and i REALLY don't like their salesmen around here. Not everything is about money or the best fuel economy: I spend so much time in the car that I need to enjoy it and not be in a penalty box (or what I see as one anyway). That's why I'd consider an Insight or Fusion but not a Prius (much as I like hatches).
Like you said, to each their own. The Prius is the right car for some, but not for me.