Last post on Oct 05, 2011 at 7:37 PM
You are in the Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
What is this discussion about?
Ford Taurus, Automotive News, Future Vehicle, Sedan
#121 of 493 Re: weight and SHO [gregg_vw]
Sep 25, 2009 (1:28 pm)
If Ford is really already offering a $1K rebate on the 2010 Taurus,
we won't have to worry about what Ford's MSRP is - folks that would consider buying one EXPECT a big discount and they get it - much like they would if they are buying other D3 cars and/or Korean cars. A 'tradition' those companies can thank themselves for - and the result of selling substandard products for many many years. Avalons and the like didn't have that problem and still sell for a higher price (relative to invoice) than the others do - even in this economy - wonder why?
#122 of 493 Re: Taurus market positioning - not Camcord [dodgeman07]
Sep 25, 2009 (1:41 pm)
As it is, Ford is crawling into 2010 on their hands and knees hoping for another "Cash For Clunkers" bail out so they don't have to take the $4,500 hit on their cars. Myself - I realize HUGE discounts are coming soon to a Ford store near you!
I say you're wrong and the new Taurus will sell in reasonable volumes at least where the old model was before last year - around 5k/month. You won't see more than $2K cash on the hood. They'll cut production before they go higher than that.
Guess we'll have to wait and see.
And please just ignore you-know-who and he'll eventually go away.
#123 of 493 Re: Taurus market positioning - not Camcord [akirby]
Sep 25, 2009 (2:05 pm)
...but you may also see indirect $ on top like Ford Credit bonus, loyalty or conquest $.
I think Ford and GM will get to where they can price with Honda and Toyota in the next 5 years or so, but I wish they had been initially more aggressive right now so they could move away from all the promo money and start focusing people on value and quality. Ford and GM got themselves into a hole with some of the crap they did in the past. Now they need to show they have redeemed their ways and that means getting butts into seats. Either approach gets the sales, but incentives and the like degrade the vehicle and emphasize "the deal" instead. Not where they should be going right now in my opinion.
#124 of 493 Re: Taurus vs. Avalon [wjtinatl]
Sep 25, 2009 (2:13 pm)
well, I guess we'll take these one at a time:
Toyota 3.5L V-6 is a jewel of a motor, easily the smoothest and most efficient, ss we'll take these one at a time: - true
Toyota reliability is not what it used to be - the Avalon is CR rated better than average (as it always has been) - no change even from when it really was a stretched Camry (see below)
being a stretched Camry (an average driving and handling car at best) is nothing special and I find the Avalon to be spongy, underdamped
used to be: the 05 Avalon came before the 06 Camry. It was the first application for the 2GR engine and substantially larger (not just stretched) than the Camry at the time. If anything the new Camry is a shrunk Avalon. And yes, Toyotas, in general, are indeed 'soft' - something that Toyota has understood over the years - Americans WANT big comfy highway cruisers. Their sales stats prove it.
their residual resale values are hardly legendary
and this is why the Avalon annuallly leads TCO numbers for ALL vehicles in this class? Don't know about legendary, but surely without peer. and also a function of keeping those sell prices up.
You want to talk about things that the money floods out of when you drive them out of the showroom - let's talk about Ford products
Sep 25, 2009 (6:53 pm)
Yes - I learned to read writing my thesis at Yale.
Okay I gotta ask...how did you get into Yale without knowing how to read?
Sep 25, 2009 (9:27 pm)
I've driven the 2010 Taurus, and while it's okay, it's no true sporting sedan, at least not in front wheel drive config.
It really is truly heavy, with a motor and brakes that are not exactly well suited given the hefty weight.
You're not going to find any front wheel drive car that qualifies as a sports car, whether a coupe or sedan in my book. The laws of physics and engineering don't allow it, nor does real life experience.
I find that the exterior look of the new Taurus is no worse, but no better, either, than many of its competitors (better than some, worse than a select few).
The interior is decent, but why did Ford have to put that huge swath of faux carbon fiber on the passenger side dash, along with a cheapish looking 'Taurus' badge?
At any rate, I'm now seeing the SE version of this showing up advertised at just over 25k, and the SEL version just over 27k.
Mind you, this is while production AND deliveries are very low, because of an initial quality glitch on the production line.
When production ramps up, and the cash for clunkers mess has faded from memory and the aftermath from markets, there should be some serious room for negotiation on these, especially the all goodied up versions.
The 3.5 Liter Duratec does not do this car justice. It's far from silky, it's far from the competition, and the hanging transmission does it no favors, either.
There are also very credible statements, from Ford fans themselves, that the 19" wheel version has some awfully harsh impacts, which is particularly galling since this has an important mission of being a stable and smooth highway cruiser (one rung up from the Fusion).
I said the same thing about the Genesis; the ride quality doesn't cut the mustard in that car. I like the interior,the exterior is about the best we can expect in this era of blandness and copycat-ism, but the ride in the Genesis is way too busy, with way too many inputs inefficiently processed by the apparently flawed suspension at once.
#127 of 493 Re: Taurus market positioning - not Camcord [dodgeman07]
Sep 26, 2009 (4:44 am)
The Accord is now a full-size car.
NO WAY!!! My mother just bought a new Accord, and there is no way that it is anything more than a mid-size. If it were a full size, she would have never bought it as she doesn't want a car that big. Just throwing out a statement doesn't make it true.
#128 of 493 Re: Taurus market positioning - not Camcord [poodog13]
Sep 26, 2009 (5:38 am)
there is no way that it is anything more than a mid-size.
According to the EPA, an Accord with moonroof is a mid-size while the Accord without the moonroof is a full-size. Makes no sense but that's how the formula works.
I don't think anyone thinks of the Accord as a full-size car though - it clearly competes with other mid-sized vehicles.
#129 of 493 Re: Taurus market positioning - not Camcord [akirby]
Sep 26, 2009 (8:46 am)
there is no way that it is anything more than a mid-size.
According to the EPA, the Accord has more passenger volume than the new Taurus:
2009 Honda Accord
Size Class: Large Cars
Drive: Front-Wheel Drive
Gas Guzzler: no
Passenger Volume: 106 ft3 (4D)
The new Taurus checks in at 102 ft3 of passenger volume.
Of course you don't have to take my word or the EPA's, Edmund's says the same thing:
Accord 1st - Taurus 2nd
#130 of 493 Re: Taurus market positioning - not Camcord [dodgeman07]
Sep 26, 2009 (8:58 am)
The EPA also includes trunk space in its qualification, a large car starting at 120cu.ft. The Accord's is 14cu ft. Taurus has had the largest trunk of any passenger car in its previous iteration. I assume it still does?
The Taurus is 203" long. The Accord is 194" long.