Last post on Dec 20, 2008 at 8:51 AM
You are in the Mazda Mazda5
What is this discussion about?
Mazda MAZDA5, Van
#5 of 12 Re: Carrying Kayaks [vg33e power]
Dec 18, 2008 (5:48 pm)
Apparently I own the ugliest and the sportiest of the three mentioned vehicles. I'll confirm that the 3.5L Sienna is very fast, and the 5 can really corner well. The 5's body also resonates at ~50mph and the dashboard squeaks terribly when it is cold. There is a hack TSB for the resonance, and dealers are aware of the dash squeak, although neither problem has been resolved by Mazda yet.
Regardless of vehicle, I'd consider pulling a $300 trailer with a low profile home-made cargo box and get on with life. No matter how much room you have for cargo, there will always be a need for more. Pretty soon the kayaks will have kids and there will be full canoes worth of life jackets, tents and paddles. Then come the bikes...
With my previous minivan, the best mileage I ever got was pulling a 1500 lb. utility trailer. Believe it or not, a trailer can actually improve the aerodynamics of a vehicle that looks like a shoe box.
As far as the kayaks and power are concerned, it's frontal area that matters (on flat roads) not weight.
The 5 speed auto on the 5 is well matched to the engine. Unless you like to drag race teenagers, the 5's performance is more than adequate. If you do like to dispense with cocky drivers at stoplights, the Sienna does it with style. Nothing beats the feeling of getting dusted by a minivan with that's pulling trailer.
I'd buy the Sienna again.
I'd buy the 5 again.
#6 of 12 Re: Carrying Kayaks [5_more]
by vg33e power
Dec 18, 2008 (6:02 pm)
Sorry bud! The "UGLIEST" term is subjective, dont take it personal.
#7 of 12 Re: Carrying Kayaks [vg33e power]
Dec 18, 2008 (7:48 pm)
My shoe is in my hand, ready to go...
#8 of 12 Roof rack and kayaks is not a weight issue
Dec 19, 2008 (3:10 pm)
None of the discussion above about weight impacts the question about performance with the kayaks on top of the car. Areodynamics and drag however do play a major role in the cars performance.
It doesn't need to be this particular car to draw a sense of what sort of Impact the Kayak's will have on the Mazda.
My subaru Legacy - with just an empty roof rack at highway speeds has a noticable slower passing acceleration than without the nakid roof rack - all due to the drag factor. Toss on MT bikes which will have equal or greater drag than kayaks and that drag factor goes up. Driving around town and at speeds say 45mph -50mph you will notice very little impact on your cars performance from the drag caused by the roof rack given your not generating a huge amount of drag vs the power your car has.
Another way to look at it - think about how many trips you plan on taking with the kayaks on top of the car tie a percentage to that compared to all the other time your using the car - I suspect you'll find that the milege difference between the 4cylinder way - way out weighs the cost of the V6 or a larger more powerful car.
The only other thought I would have is Kayaking and camping if your really into it you may find AWD and slightly better road clearance a nice thing when going to those out of the way places. A Subaru might be another option to consider though they are all standard 4dr - 4 seaters vs the Mazda MPV type layout.
Hope that helps. Think Drag not weight.
My landcruiser suffers from drag more than weight- major head wind sometimes 60mph is hard to maintain simply because I'm pushing a flat wall of a profile through the air even with the large engine. The weight being hauled is of little impact regarding highway speeds.
#9 of 12 Re: Roof rack and kayaks is not a weight issue [watkinst]
Dec 19, 2008 (6:32 pm)
Well, good summary, but still the question is about the Mazda5 being underpowered, so everything counts and has an impact, including the weight, especially as the drag coefficient with the kayaks will increase *almost* equally regardless of the vehicle.
Crazy example, but I'm sure driving a 4dr Toyota Echo will feel worse and with less power (especially with crosswinds) than a Mazda5 with exactly the same kayaks on the roof, so weight/engine power should still be relevant
My 2 cents
#10 of 12 Re: Roof rack and kayaks is not a weight issue
Dec 19, 2008 (8:31 pm)
So here are the quick back of the envelope numbers:
... To drive 75 MPH with two kayaks, you'd be using about 60% of the available engine power, on flat roads with no wind.
... On a flat road, you could drive 75 MPH with two kayaks in to ~15 MPH head wind, before running out of engine power in 5th gear.
... With no wind, you could drive 75 MPH up a ~3% slope, with 600 lbs + the car's weight, before running out of engine power in 5th gear.
The Mazda5 has a frontal area that is less than 2.86 m^2.
At 75 mph, less than 27 HP is needed to maintain speed.
Two kayaks would be on the order of 0.5 m^2.
They'll be pretty aerodynamic, but assume they're not with a Cd of 0.50.
At 75 mph, an additional 8 HP would be needed.
So 2 kayaks + a Mazda 5 need roughly 35 HP to maintain 75 mph.
Assume that the drive train is 80% efficient.
You then need 44 "engine" HP to maintain 75 mph.
Off the top of my head, I do not remember the exact RPM at 75 mph in 5th, and it does vary from auto to stick, but it's in the vicinity of 3100 RPM.
Peak torque is 143 lb ft at 4500 RPM, but torque curves are pretty flat. Assume 85% of that at 3100 RPM, or 122 lb ft.
Available (full throttle) torque of 122 lb ft 3100 RPM is somewhere around 72 HP.
*** all numbers approximate, and a sea level
#11 of 12 Re: Roof rack and kayaks is not a weight issue [coolmazda5]
Dec 19, 2008 (8:38 pm)
Thank you watkinst. That is the answer I was really looking for. It is not the weight of the kayaks that are a concern. Combined they weight slightly more than 100 pounds. That is not a great deal of weight. It is more the drag than the weight that concerns me. Another concern is cross winds. I would still appreciate it if anyone has any real experience with kayaks on top of their Mazda 5, especially so if you have the kayaks in "saddle roof racks" and could tell me how it has affected the handling and power of this vehicle.
I'm pretty sure we are going to get this vehicle no matter what the answer, as hauling kayaks is not the only or even the major thing we will use this vehicle for. I do like the Mazda 5, I would just like to know what we are in for if we hit a cross wind or even a head wind with a couple of kayaks on top. I think your answer watkinst came closest to the information I was looking for, but I do thank all for the replies.
#12 of 12 Re: Roof rack and kayaks is not a weight issue [Quickbeam]
Dec 20, 2008 (8:51 am)
I'm pretty sure we are going to get this vehicle no matter what the answer
Anyway, in summary, it will haul you around safely and it won't flip