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Hybrid Vehicles Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan Hybrid Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid
1054 messages, Last post on Nov 01, 2009 at 2:52 PM
You are in the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan Hybrid Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 07, 2009 8:15 am) Safety: The hybrid is carrying an extra 400 lb set of 'slugs' under your butt. That is not good for collision performance. Handling: High speed maneuvering can't be good with the extra weight of the hybrid. Performance: Since AWD eats gas, you don't typically see this on the more serious hybrids like Prius and Fusion hybrids. A friend of mine with a Prius says it does crappy in the snow because the battery weight is over the back wheels. Acceleration of hybrids tends to be worse, due to the extra battery weight. For my money, I would: Get a 4-cylinder, high-MPG, version of a car, and put the $6,000 bucks I save into an FDIC insured savings account. My choices are getting better as they add direct-injection, higher-compression (more efficient) engines and put CVTs or 6-speed automatics in more cars, increasing MPG of the basic 4-cylinder models of Malibu, Fusion, etc. With non-hybrids like that, I can still thumb my nose at the Saudis and Chavez, too, while driving something that doesn't have a ton of batteries attached to my butt. |
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 07, 2009 8:15 am) I guess I'm adding other factors into the purchase, like decreasing oil imports and having fun (I'm an engineer, so I may have a strange definition of fun) working with the hybrid technology. |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 06, 2009 8:04 am) The original post that set off this mini blaze stated that hybrids were not intended for highway driving. I disagree, that's all. They all do wonderfully on the highway. As regards pricing that's far far more subjective. There is no right/wrong or good/bad barometer. If a person normally expects to spend $25000 - $35000 on a vehicle then the hybrids are simply the most economical choice. There is no 'premium', it doesn't exist for these buyers. In fact there's a discount, i.e. the amount of fuel saved.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 07, 2009 10:38 am) Some people will pay more for newer tech, as well as for having a certain level of comfort while still knowing they are doing some small part to address dwindling resources and the need to burn less fuel to have cleaner air. The lower fuel cost is just a bonus, but one the hybrid owner gets to take advantage of each and every week of ownership. Actual "payback" is beside the point. If all vehicle purchases were made with a spreadsheet in mind, there would be a lot fewer choices out there. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 07, 2009 10:38 am) |
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 07, 2009 10:50 am)
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 07, 2009 10:58 am) If a person normally expects to spend $25000 - $35000 on a vehicle then the hybrids are simply the most economical choice. There is no 'premium', it doesn't exist for these buyers. In fact there's a discount, i.e. the amount of fuel saved. I agree that a person willing to spend that much may not care that the hybrid cost $3K more. Just like they may be willing to spend $3K on a DVD/NAV/Stereo option or $5K on a luxury package. If a person plans to spend $25K to $35K on a car, where is the premium? Well DUH - It's in the extra $3K cost of the hybrid over the non hybrid. If you're both saying that buyers won't PERCEIVE it as a premium then that I can agree with. They will also PERCEIVE that they're saving money overall based on lower fuel costs. But PERCEPTION is not REALITY. I'm sorry but I'm a literal person. If you say there's no premium when there clearly is I have a problem with it. If you say there is a premium but nobody cares then that's fine.
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 07, 2009 10:50 am) Of course there is a difference in price. There is also a difference in price between the 4 cyl and the V6; between the base model and one with Navi and Leather. The key point is that Ford and Toyota and Honda have discovered that there are whole swaths of buyers that will not even consider the base model of the Fusion or Camry or Civic under any circumstance. For these buyers those base models don't exist. This isn't a theoretical beauty pagaent. It's about identifying buyers and what they want and what they don't want. For the ultra budget conscious the hybrids probably are NOT the best choice....a good used vehicle is a better choice. For those expecting to pay $25000 - $35000 for their next new vehicle any one of the hybrids is a great choice because they're less expensive overall than the other vehicles in that price range. Buyers first of all classify themselves into price strata. A $40000 vehicle buyer will not consider a $14000 strippie outside of extraordinary circumstances. A $19000 buyer doesn't really 'shop' a Mercedes, he or she may look but they know that they don't belong there budget-wise. |
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 07, 2009 11:22 am) I'm sorry but I'm a literal person. If you say there's no premium when there clearly is I have a problem with it. If you say there is a premium but nobody cares then that's fine. After 8 yrs of addressing these concerns this key concept has proven itself valid. Buyers in this price segment see the benefits of having the most fuel efficient vehicle in that price stratum. The vehicle makers know what they're doing in these pricing structures. The Camry V6 loaded goes for $33000 MSRP ......... 268 HP The Camry Hybrid loaded goes for $32000 MSRP .... 187 HP The Camry I4 loaded goes for $31000 MSRP ........... 161 HP ( soon 179 HP ) I'd expect the FFH to have a similar structure. All three have the same equipment, the only difference is the drive system. Buyers in this price stratum recognize that the hybrid overall is the less costly vehicle. You see the price premium ( vis-a-vis the I4 ) while I see the price discount ( vis-a-vis the V6 ). In addition when you add up all the estimated costs over the lives of these three vehicles the TCH comes out far lower overall. Thus for the literally-minded not only is there NO PREMIUM but in fact there is a discount. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 07, 2009 1:04 pm) Buyers first of all classify themselves into price strata. A $40000 vehicle buyer will not consider a $14000 strippie outside of extraordinary circumstances. A $19000 buyer doesn't really 'shop' a Mercedes, he or she may look but they know that they don't belong there budget-wise Speak for yourself. I seriously test drove a $18K used mustang GT and a $20K mercury cougar before buying a $38,000 Lincoln LS. I just wanted something fun to drive and price wasn't an issue (below $40K). For those expecting to pay $25000 - $35000 for their next new vehicle any one of the hybrids is a great choice because it's less expensive overall than the other vehicles in that price range. Now you've TOTALLY lost me again. Let's say I'm looking at a $30K Fusion that happens to be a hybrid. I can also get the EXACT SAME VEHICLE without the hybrid powertrain (2.5L I4) for $27K that still gets great fuel economy. So my choice is to get the non hybrid or pay $3K more for the hybrid version that gets much better fuel economy. HOW DOES THAT MAKE THE HYBRID CHEAPER?? It might turn out to be cheaper 5 or 10 years down the road based on future fuel costs, but it costs more up front.
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