Last post on Apr 19, 2012 at 4:15 AM
You are in the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Ford Fusion Hybrid, Mercury Milan Hybrid, Hybrid Cars, Sedan
#532 of 1144 How Clean the Fusion Hybrid is Compared to Others
Mar 28, 2009 (11:51 am)
Some posting above have seemed to indicate there is a great deal of difference in how "clean" (less polluting) some new cars are compared to each other. The reality is that new cars are all very clean, the differences between them being very small. Negligible in fact. Pollution standards for all 2010 cars make them all about equally clean, even when compared to CNG Civics, for that matter. Don't worry about that. OBDII and the EPA have ensured they are plenty clean.
That said, the best vehicle for the environment is going to be the one that uses the least amount of fuel, as that means less CO2 in the atmosphere. Also, remember the Ford Fusion Hybrid is great, but the normal Fusion 4 cyl will get 34 MPG hiway for 2010, so its a good tradeoff, too. Who really wants all those dead-weight hybrid batteries and electric motors? Actually, a little known secret out there now is that the next hybrid cars won't have electric motors or batteries at all. Hydraulic hybrid cars don't need any batteries or electrical stuff, bypassing that whole problem, and this tech would work great in a 2012 Ford Fusion Hybrid. We've got a hydraulic hybrid debuting at the next auto show, and it increases fuel economy by about 55% in city driving, and 15% in hiway driving. Thats how future tougher CAFE standards will be met! Sans batteries!
#533 of 1144 Re: Real World Numbers [dbostondriver]
Mar 28, 2009 (11:56 am)
dbostondriver said: "Insight/Prius being a extension cord away from being a competitor"
The reason the Prius/Insight and Fusion Hybrid cost less is largely due to the fact that they have far less batteries than a Volt will. The Volt will allow for up to about 40 miles on electric-only, while these other vehicles might get you 2 miles or so. Big difference. In the marketplace, I agree the Volt does seem overpriced though.
#534 of 1144 Battery Storage Comparison: Fusion vs. Others
Mar 28, 2009 (1:04 pm)
Escape and Fusion Hybrids: 1.3 KWH
Prius: 1.3 KWH
Camry Hyb: 1.3 KWH (guess)
2010 Honda Insight: 0.6 KWH -- one extreme! A "light" hybrid. Cheaper!
Chevy Volt: 16 KWH -- another extreme, lots of range, very expensive.
With those KWH numbers, I wouldn't expect the Fusion Hybrid to go more than 2 miles, as said. Note the Fusion Hybrid gets much greater fuel economy than the Camry 1.3 KWH vehicle as well. Does the Camry actually have less KWH than a Prius or Fusion Hyb car? I've assumed the battery pack is about the same in the Camry as in the Prius (1.3 KWH), but couldn't get confirmation of that. Anybody know how that compares to the Fusion Hybrid and Prius's 1.3 KWH?
#535 of 1144 Why the Fusion Hybrid is not the Final Word
Mar 28, 2009 (1:43 pm)
Don't necessarily drink the koolaid that you need all those expensive batteries and electric motors to get 40 MPG:
"If it were our money, the Fusion/Milan we want would be powered by the combination of a 1.6L EcoBoost four with dual-clutch transmission and start/stop that we saw in the Lincoln Concept C at this year's Detroit Auto Show. That powertrain would virtually match the 40-mpg fuel consumption potential of this hybrid at a considerably lower cost and no reduction in trunk space. Ford could probably offer that car in the low $20k range, virtually matching the VW Jetta TDI in price. But that car doesn't exist. Yet."
My comment: They are right. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/10/review-2010-mercury-milan-hybrid/
#536 of 1144 Re: Battery Storage Comparison: Fusion vs. Others [coldcranker]
Mar 28, 2009 (4:12 pm)
Good point, seems like a compromise would be a best bet.
#537 of 1144 Re: Real Data [coldcranker]
Mar 28, 2009 (7:41 pm)
kdhspyder, Of course the 10 minutes 40 mph will go down if the car is loaded more. It might go down to 7 minutes or so, but not too severely. Electric only cruise time is not destroyed completely as you seem to indicate. WyattNichol's report on it going 2 miles is actually closer to what you would get.
HUH? That's exactly what I was saying in reply to the prior post. IMO 10 min in EV mode is too long. 2-4 min at a constant speed is about max from my experience. But...I can drive for up to 10 min without the ICE engaging if I coast down from 60 mph to 15 mph from a highway-driving to residential-area-driving.
But...as I noted above the outside conditions have to be perfect to accomplish this goal. Strong winds, bad traction, cold weather and extra weight will increase the demand on the battery thus shorten the EV period.
#538 of 1144 Re: Real Data [kdhspyder]
Mar 29, 2009 (9:19 am)
Pointless argument anyway. My experience with the TCH is that "pure" EV mode distance is meaningless. The TCH and I assume the FFH will give their best results when there is a mix of ICE engagement over the long haul allowing the battery to stay close to fully charged and assisting when needed for acceleration on to propel the car once in motion allowing the ICE to shut down or be assisted.
My best "sustainable" milage with the TCH, meaning on a drive longer than what the car could have went in full EV mode anyway, was on mildly hilly rural roads in West Virginia. I once obtained 57 mpg experimenting on a 25 mile drive using the back roads and practicing operations that yield maximum benefits from a hybrid system. In normal driving I would still obtain 42mpg on that same route.
Highway milage comparisons, such as the ads use, are useless unless one really does drive or commute with 90% of their driving on the interstate (and not the stop and go kinds like the DC beltway). The small cars advertising 33 mpg highway may do much better than that but my experience for my driving is I usually have an overall FE closer to the city milage. So comparing a Fusion with (I don't know the numbers) 24 city / 33 highway where I (and many others) would average no better than 26mpg to a FFH with something like 41 city / 40 highway and I could actually average 40 mpg requires me to be reasonable and compare the milage I expect to see for my type of driving. So for me instead of comparing 33 to 40 I would think it is more reasonable to compare 26 to 40 to see if it makes sense.
It's fun to watch these posts as they are identical arguments and opinions to the TCH threads from May 2006. I would never own a 4cySE Fusion but am interested in the FFH. Some find that hard to believe but my initial capital in buying a car has little to do with comparing different grade levels of the same model.
#539 of 1144 Announcement on Monday?
Mar 29, 2009 (10:12 am)
Here the President is going to make some sort of announcement on Monday reference the auto industry. I wonder if he is going to extend the tax credits. I am on the fence about this. I could go into my dealer on Tuesday and go for the Milan HB trading in my 2007 MKZ. If the tax credit gets extended I might wait to see one and perhaps pay less than MRSP. Then on the other hand I could also wait one or two years to see what other neat things come out. This is like Vegas, gas now going over 2 bucks. I got this feeling it will be 3 this year and 4 next year. If this happens you will not be able to even see a HB on the lot!
#541 of 1144 Re: Announcement on Monday? [bigt]
Mar 29, 2009 (8:30 pm)
It's all over the GM boards.
Tomorrow morning the President will give GM 60 days to restructure or it goes into a government controlled bankruptcy.
Tomorrow morning he will give Chrysler 30 days to be bought out by Fiat or it goes into Chp 11.
The CEO of GM is being pressured to leave, he will quit tomorrow.
Both GM and Chrysler will get some more money to stay afloat until the new deadlines. If they can't do it on their own then the loans get repaid and it's bankruptcy court.