Last post on Apr 19, 2012 at 4:15 AM
You are in the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Ford Fusion Hybrid, Mercury Milan Hybrid, Hybrid Cars, Sedan
#294 of 1144 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid
Feb 07, 2009 (12:47 pm)
Regarding the batteries - Any idea of the warranty to be offered? What about replacement cost?
Has anyone researched the battery performance degradation with hybrids when operating in a cold environment? What kind of mileage can I expect when driving at 20 F?
By the way - I had a similar experience as an earlier post. I tried contacting a local dealer with questions. They had very little information to offer.
#295 of 1144 Re: USA Today reviewer RAVES about it [gregg_vw]
Feb 07, 2009 (2:58 pm)
gregg_vw, The author of the USAToday car review made a misleading error when he said the Prius was "about" as roomy as the Fusion. For example, would you say the Ford 500/Taurus sedan is about as roomy as a Prius? Of course not. Well, the Fusion is very close to the Ford 500/Taurus large sedan in the critical measurements of shoulder room and hip room. (The Fusion slightly beats the 500/Taurus on front hip room, BTW.) Those roominess measurements are the biggest contributors to the actual feeling of not being cramped, as known in Human Factors automotive engineering. If you go by EPA volume measurements and/or exterior dimensions as you did, you can get confused, because some of that volume is not devoted to places where you notice it the most. The Prius was made narrow to give it more MPG, sacrificing driver/passenger comfort levels.
Figures for the 2010 Fusion, 2009 Prius, 2009 Taurus
Front Shoulder Room 57.4 in. 55 in. 57.8 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 56.5 in. 52.9 in. 57.6 in.
Front Hip Room 54 in. 51 in. 53.7 in.
#296 of 1144 Marketing Hype
Feb 08, 2009 (9:38 am)
And there, Fusion is without equal among hybrids
It may well be, but until they hit the road and are driven by consumers instead of a very few automotive journalist, only time will tell.
As for "driving experience" people that own a hybrid to truly maximize their FE will never push the FFH to the limit that will make it noticable over the TCH. Does the TCH handle like a sporting sedan? No it does not. Does anyone really want to drive it that way? Only a few. And a "few" won't make a big difference in the overall public opinion.
I think the FFE will be a great car and a hit for Ford. I'm just saying to say that it is without equal before it's in the showroom is BS
#297 of 1144 Re: USA Today reviewer RAVES about it [coldcranker]
Feb 09, 2009 (6:17 am)
I don't understand. Again, I don't disagree with anything you say. I said that the guy was using EPA volumes, and like EPA mpg figures, that provides a gauge that may be useful to some people and may not be to others.
The Taurus of course is a large car by EPA standards and your standards as well (even though its interior width is closer to a mid-size, as you point out by your figures). Large cars used to more often be 59" - 62" in shoulder room, but the Taurus definitely has the volume and legroom of a large car regardless. The author was merely pointing out that the Prius and Fusion are in the same size class. You are pointing out how greater interior width can impart a greater feeling of roominess. Maybe that's why the cockpit of the Taurus feels a bit cramped compared to say, the DTS or Lucerne or Crown Vic (still all large cars nonetheless).
As you know, the Ford hybrid models are identical to the non-hybrids in interior room. I hope that the next iteration of the Fusion (fall 2012?) includes more rear seat room. A car of that size could have more leg room without increasing the exterior dimensions.
#298 of 1144 Re: Marketing Hype [wvgasguy]
Feb 09, 2009 (12:04 pm)
wvgasguy said "driven by consumers instead of a very few automotive journalist" .... Like others who post here occasionally, you have way more faith in Aunt Mable's opinion of vehicles than I do. Most (not all) automotive journalists know their stuff, where the average Joe does not. So who should we trust?
wvgasugy said "Does the TCH handle like a sporting sedan? No it does not. Does anyone really want to drive it that way? " ... Don't forget emergency evasive handling ability. It should be there, and cars that do it better than others can save your neck. It has little to do with driving like Mario Andretti, although feeling that is satisfying.
#299 of 1144 Re: USA Today reviewer RAVES about it [gregg_vw]
Feb 09, 2009 (12:26 pm)
gregg_vw, I'm just saying the Fusion Hybrid is a notch up in interior roominess over the Prius, and the author of the USAToday report should have emphasized that more. Thats all. I offered some numbers to show the difference. No, I don't think the Fusion Hybrid will feel as big inside as a massive Crown Vic, as thats another notch up in interior roominess over a 500/Taurus or Fusion.
This all may be VERY important because taxi companies in NY would love a Fusion Hybrid, as they have liked the Escape Hybrid, but they look at interior roominess and the ability to stuff a lot of passengers in the back seat. Prius taxis are common, but they give up the ability to put chubby people in the back, with luggage.
Another thing that gets dropped in all these discussions about the Fusion Hybrid over other hybrids like the Prius or Insight is safety. The extra crumple zones on a Fusion Hybrid are going to protect you more, something many people actually think about when comparing these hybrids. Yet another advantage goes to the Fusion Hybrid.
#300 of 1144 Re: Marketing Hype [coldcranker]
Feb 09, 2009 (1:53 pm)
Most (not all) automotive journalists know their stuff, where the average Joe does not. So who should we trust?
Actually my name is Joe. So I guess that makes me just an average nonautomotive engineer. I don't expect to change your opinion, no one on here has been able to do that. It is difficult to argue with an expert. Anyway, the point being I drove a TCH for 67,000 miles. I am not concerned about the handling. No I did not drive curves at 70mph on 2 lane roads like I did with my Vette, my (2) 300ZX's, my Audi TT, my 350Z and lastly my FX45. I make that point just to show that I have driven decent handling sporting cars before my TCH. Will the FFH be a better handling car than the TCH? I have no doubt it will. Will it be significantly enough so that I should be concerned with the TCH. NO. That's all most people want to know.
Did I ever feel the TCH was unsafe? NO. It was a great dependable car.
The FFH is not even on the road yet but you are willing to consider it as exceptionally better than the TCH. I'm simply saying that a few journalist that have a heavy bias towards fast good handling cars will always lean towards them in a comparison. Even when that comparison is about cars intended to be economy cars.
Most people read these forums to get an idea about how they will like a car they may be considering. Yes your technical arguments are probably correct, but no one really cares that much. They just enjoy jerking your chain.
#301 of 1144 Re: Marketing Hype [wvgasguy]
Feb 09, 2009 (3:48 pm)
wvgasguy (Joe), My point in my last post was simply that people SHOULD want better handling/steering cars because they might save their neck in emergency maneuvers. Thats all. It does matter that Toyota Camry's have inferior steering compared to a Fusion Hybrid. Sure, any car will get Aunt Mable to the grocery store and back, but better steering/handling will allow a good driver to avoid many accidents.
And what are you saying the Fusion Hybrid is "not on the road"? Its out there being evaluated by skilled people now. Its on the road. Thats better than consumers who won't be able to thoroughly test the performance. Just like its wiser to trust a doctor's medical opinion over your barber, leave it to the experts in their field.
Don't take any of this as an insult, because every adult is an expert at something, so I'm sure you're a Joe who knows his stuff about whatever it is you do.
#302 of 1144 Re: Marketing Hype [coldcranker]
Feb 09, 2009 (6:02 pm)
I understand your point and agree with most of your observations, but the sad truth is the average driver (which is the vast majority) does not have the skill or presence of mind to avoid an accident, so having better steering and handling really doesn't matter. All they know is to stand on the brakes and pray. We need driver TRAINING in this country, not just driver education. But then what do you expect from people who can't obey a simple traffic sign that says "keep moving" at an intersection?
#303 of 1144 Re: Marketing Hype [coldcranker]
Feb 10, 2009 (5:47 am)
Don't take any of this as an insult
When one is as ignorant as myself about the technical design of an automobile it's difficult to be insulted. We're all fortunate to have access to your wealth of knowledge about the FFH.