- #212 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [akirby]
by bigt
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Jan 24, 2009 (11:18 am)
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 24, 2009 10:11 am)
Hi, I am curious what happens in a HB vehicle when you start it in the freezing cold and turn on the heater. I assume the gas engine immediately kicks in? Does the same thing occur during the summer when you turn on the AC?
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- #213 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [bigt]
by akirby
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Jan 24, 2009 (12:36 pm)
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Replying to: bigt (Jan 24, 2009 11:18 am)
This varies from vehicle to vehicle and generation to generation. In the newer ones the AC is electric so it doesn't require the ICE. In older ones it does require the ICE to be running. Heat is probably different since the engine retains heat even when it's not running, but it could be programmed to start the ICE if heat was needed.
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- #214 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [akirby]
by coldcranker
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Jan 24, 2009 (1:35 pm)
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Replying to: akirby (Jan 24, 2009 12:36 pm)
Regarding bigt's question about AC and heater usage, to be sure using those any one of those will cause the engine to run more, reducing overall MPG. Even if the heater uses an electrical heating element, that uses energy. I don't know if the engine will simply automatically start up as soon as you flip the AC or heater switch. Good question, though.
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- #215 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [coldcranker]
by kdhspyder
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Jan 24, 2009 (3:11 pm)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 24, 2009 1:35 pm)
What does the FEH system do when the heat is demanded? I'd guess that the heat comes from the ICE does it not? The new technology for the hybrids uses electric AC so there is no need for the ICE to be 'ON' unless the demand for the AC has drawn down the battery to the point that the ICE has to jump in and recharge the lost juice.
To reply to the OP about the heater I'd guess that the ICE kicks on pretty quickly after it warms up in order to heat the cabin. Actually all vehicles lose about 10% of their nominal fuel economy rating in the winter because the ICE has to run more frequently. This is especially true of the hybrids. The ICE has to warm the fluids, warm the cabin - continuously and warm up the catalytic converter. The ICE has a LOT of work to do in wintertime. Thus fuel economy suffers.
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- #216 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [kdhspyder]
by coldcranker
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Jan 24, 2009 (8:01 pm)
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 24, 2009 3:11 pm)
kdhspyder, Your last post demonstrated a non-engineer viewpoint. Much lack of understanding of energy conservation and thermodynamics. I hope those reading this thread will keep in mind its a little like a pharmacist trying to talk like an opthamologist, he can try but it probably won't come out right.
Like I said in the other thread, I'll bet you're a capable salesman, but this is just not your area.
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- #217 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [coldcranker]
by texases
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Jan 24, 2009 (8:12 pm)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 24, 2009 8:01 pm)
?? Coldcranker, I don't see the problem with his post. Nothing worth pointing out, that's for sure.
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- #218 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [coldcranker]
by gregg_vw
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Jan 25, 2009 (7:06 am)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 24, 2009 8:01 pm)
ALL cars (hybrid and non-hybrid) get less mpg as the temps drop. Takes them longer to get to optimum operating temp and stay there) and all moving components are affected. You really see the mpgs plummet when the temp stays below 0F, like it has here recently. Still, you'd be doing better than everyone else in a hybrid.
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- #219 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [gregg_vw]
by coldcranker
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Jan 25, 2009 (4:13 pm)
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 25, 2009 7:06 am)
Most of the MPG loss in cold weather is due to stiffer tire rubber and higher viscosity oil before operating temp is reach. The normal thermodynamic waste heat from an ICE is always there, cold temps or not, and they don't make the engine waste any more energy cold than hot, as kdhspyder had said earlier.
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- #220 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [coldcranker]
by kdhspyder
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Jan 25, 2009 (9:46 pm)
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Replying to: coldcranker (Jan 25, 2009 4:13 pm)
While you pretend to be conversant in auto technology you have a huge blind spot where the hybrids are concerned. You don't seem to be aware of, or don't accept, the fact that the key to saving fuel is not burning any. This is why the hybrids have higher fuel efficiency ratings. The ICE in the hybrid is able to turn off or turn down to idle or run at it's most efficient state as demand requires. The normal ICE has to run all the time.
However in wintertime the ICE in the hybrid has to run more frequently for the reasons I noted above. There is nothing surprising about this if you've ever owned one as many here have. But to make statements such as yours above indicates that you've never put much - if any - time behind the wheel of a hybrid. Thus your assumptions are at best guesses - and they're wrong. There are 10 yrs of driving experiences all over the internet. You need to leave the 20th Century and bring yourself up-to-date. C'mon ol' timer. This is a new era, it's not that scary.
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- #221 of 1054
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Re: Electric Mileage [kdhspyder]
by wvgasguy
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Jan 26, 2009 (6:50 am)
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 25, 2009 9:46 pm)
Keep the "opinions" coming Bob. Sometimes Engineers (or even car nuts like Car and Driver) get stuck on raw data. All things being equal, the single most important input on maximizing the hybrid FE in my non-engineering opinion (I am an engineer, but not an expert in automotive like the many participants here) is the driver.
Most people don't want to hear all the arguments for the details about the tech but simply want to know does it work and will I be able to make it work like it's supposed it.
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