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Hybrid Vehicles Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan Hybrid Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid
1054 messages, Last post on Nov 01, 2009 at 2:52 PM
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Replying to: gregg_vw (Jan 16, 2009 7:16 pm) Your perception of the market is off, sorry. The Insight II is a Honda Fit with a $1500 hybrid option. The Honda Fit was sold out and oversubscribed  $17000 MSRP until the recession hit us over the head. A $1500 option for 42-45 mpg day-in and day-out is a small upcharge and it fits ( ewwww ) right into the expectations of that buying segment. Yes if you look at the price through the eyes of the most hardnosed frugal buyer that won't buy unless the final price is sweating blood then yes the Insight $18500 is out of the question. But this is a HUGE HUGE market and if the Fit can be oversubscribed at $17000 MSRP the Insight II will also.....when the market recovers of course. Back to the FFH. This is the same good situation that Toyota has found itself in with the TCH. Fusion buyers range from $19000 to $30000. In this range there are enough who want to spend less on fuel to support the FFH. All buyers? Of course not. But there are enough. The good press that the FFH and Ford are getting will drive even more into the stores. Those that would consider a TCH at $27000 ( a very typical Toyota buyer ) will also shop this new guy on the block to see if the reports are true. You're viewing the pricing from the pov of a frugal I4 buyer looking to keep the cost of the vehicle as low as possible and still get decent fuel economy. Now look at it from the pov of a V6 buyer who wants some amenities, in fact would never drive or buy a base model, and normally expects to pay $25000 - $30000 for the vehicle. Now the FFH looks like a bargain. Look at it from the pov of one of the millions of Explorer owners who are now ready to dump their SUV that got 17 mpg. Those buyers always spent $30000+ for their wheels. Now for $30000 they get a loaded FFH and 38 mpg? They're in heaven. But it's a HUGE, HUGE market with a wide variety of price/value points. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 17, 2009 4:31 am) I think you're missing something here....if someone is looking for a V6, many are looking for power in most cases. Another large portion are looking for the artificial self-worth that comes from a "V6" badge. How many out of those two groups would consider a "greenie weenie" hybrid powertrain? THat is how some people think of hybrids still, you know (especially some of the ones who want that V6 badge). Admittedly, the rest, who are getting the V6 simply because that's the highest line trim out there would happily consider a hybrid powertrain as opposed to the V6, especially if the Hybrid trim matches the highest line as far as available options. |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 17, 2009 5:21 am) In summary, the typical Fusion Hybrid buyer will see its relatively slow accel as acceptable, looking for a good handling, robost hybrid with great MPG. |
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 17, 2009 5:21 am) That's where you err on the side of too little flexibility. This is a huge and diverse market. You are trying to pigeon hole everyone into tiny little places. I've been selling these since 2000. I've met thousands of real and potential buyers. There is no single size that fits all buyers. One of the reasons that some well-to-do people remain well-to-do is that they don't waste money unnecessarily. Getting a nice vehicle with nice amenities that also saves 50% of the monthly gas bill is a choice many many make. Some are just against paying Big Oil and the Mideast more more money than they have to pay. Some like the greenie aspect. But these buyers will not generally buy an econo-box or a strippie I4. They are used to nicer things and they are willing to pay for them. For whatever reason, when these buyers opt to choose a hybrid then $27000 is a bargain, $30000 is a normal to lower-than-normal price.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 17, 2009 12:48 pm)  Those types are NOT going to see a hybrid as a value no matter what sales pitch you give them (ironically, they MIGHT have gone for the now-defunct Accord hybrid, except most wouldn't consider Hondas in the first place. I agree that it's a huge and diverse market, but in that market, the hybrids, while growing, are still a relative niche. Of course, when you get right down to it, every trim of every model is its own little niche (which fits in its own little pigeonhole with a few people) but that's beyond the scope of this thread. Some are just against paying Big Oil and the Mideast more more money than they have to pay. Some like the greenie aspect. But these buyers will not generally buy an econo-box or a strippie I4. They are used to nicer things and they are willing to pay for them. Granted. In fact, I think I mentioned that myself. But you've got whole other market segments that aren't even going to consider a hybrid, unless maybe it's a Corvette Hybrid. Or maybe a Camaro or Mustang Hybrid. Or something else with a lot of V6 badges, that go 0-60 in 7 seconds or less, with a cat-back exhaust and a grumble under the hood. That's just life. Then you have the others who like the general idea, but just decided that it isn't right for their driving style right now. Like me. 
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 17, 2009 12:48 pm) Strippie I-4? You can comparably equip a Fusion I-4 with automatic, air, traction control, etc., and still come out $7,000 ahead of a similarly equipped Hybrid Fusion. To me, thats too much, economically speaking. For some other people that think with their toenails, it might make sense. In reality, it only makes sense if you drive a lot of miles per year, or you want to stick it to the Mideast terrorists and/or Chavez, both good reasons really. So, if you want to strap 400 lbs of batteries to your butt and pay $7,000 for the privilege, be my guest. I'm sure there will be some. |
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Yes there are certainly those that will not look at the FFH for a variety of reasons, not as much power as the V6, antipathy against the idea of hybrids, fear, normal reticence toward changes, etc. But since this is such a huge and diverse market there are also those buyers who hate Big Oil, hate the oil producers, want a loaded vehicle with very good power but excellent fuel economy, want to leave a smaller carbon footprint, love the idea of promoting new technology, are willing to give up some power for a lower overall cost, etc. All these variations are part of the buying public. You two may fall in the first grouping. There are however lots of buyers, enough to over-subscribe the vehicles, that fall into the second grouping. This is the brilliant marketing discovery that Toyota and Honda and Ford have made. There's money to be made here and in the end that's all that counts. This is just a business with the intention to make money and survive into the future. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 18, 2009 10:54 am) Oh, I wouldn't say I'm in that group...if my driving habits were different and I drove more city, I'd certainly consider a hybrid..I am a gadget-head. But I'd want a bigger MPG increase than I'm currently going to get with 90%+ highway driving, before I shell out the extra up-front money that a hybrid would cost, that's all. Reasonable request. Like I said before, they're not a cure all and they aren't for everyone. You know what would be interesting? A web-app where people can plug in the models they're considering, and their driving habits (city% and hwy%, miles per year) and their local gas prices, and it would give them an approximation of their fuel costs per year for each vehicle. Come to think of it, shouldn't be real hard, either...some of the guys at work may be able to throw something together.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Jan 18, 2009 12:17 pm) The inputs needed are Actual aquisition cost.. Rebates or Tax Credits if any Local Taxes and Fees Insurance Est Maintenance Length of ownership in mo's or yrs Monthly or annual mileage driven Cost of fuel with an escalator for the length of ownership, then averaged. If you go to GasBuddy.com or EIA.doe.gov you can get a feel for where the price of gasoline is going and create an inflation factor. My own is $.50 per gallon per year. 2008 was an extreme aberation on both sides, top and bottom. Fuel Economy, EPA and best guesstimate on real world circumstances. RESALE VALUE!!!!
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Jan 18, 2009 10:54 am) I'm not in that group, as you accused me of. The group I'm in says why pay $7,000 more for the batteries/electrics in a Fusion Hyb than a comparably equipped plain Fusion that still gets 33 MPG hiway. My group also doesn't like the decrease in braking performance, handling, and steering from hauling around the extra 400 lbs of batteries/electrics over a plain Fusion. My group also doesn't put on over 15,000 miles per year, which means its very difficult to recoup the extra $7,000 cost sooner than about 8 years.
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