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2009 Suzuki Grand Vitara

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#59 of 67 Suzuki related: by norwoodsmn Jun 17, 2009 (9:06 am)
As widely reported in the media now, the XL-7 is toast. Suzuki's ill conceived, (from the beginning), decision to make a GM cloned replacement for the prior gen XL-7, was doomed from the start, IMO. Chief reason why?, no, IMO again, it was not necessarily the obvious one, (the wrong vehicle for the times..), rather it had more to do with brand recognition and acceptance, which, oops, here I go again, dare I say it?, is also tied to brand reliability. Maybe head to head versus GM products and their ilk, it was competitive reliability wise?, (gag!), despite the MANY initial reliability issues it suffered from?, but again, (sorry), it just never could compete reliability wise, vs. a Toyota or Honda SUV. I think ALL knowledgeable prospective purchasers of one, would have had to have known this fact, and so they didn't [buy one]. Is there a lesson there? Well I think there are lots of 'em.   Thank the Deity yet again (for Suzuki), that the new midsized car project was shelved before it got off the ground, prior to this historic low point in new vehicle sales. Now, can they break the agreement with Nissan's Tennessee plant re: the Equator?   I dunno... The next moves for the company seem pretty critical regarding their continued presence in the North American marketplace. First, just how many dealerships are surviving now? The highly regarded (real) Suzuki Swift sold on the rest of the planet is due here when?, (should have been yesterday). While in the SUV department, in keeping with the clear trend towards smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient vehicles, just bring the long in the tooth "Jimney" over here?. No, it wouldn't have a chance of selling here.   The GV in present form IS undoubtably here with us for a number of years yet in it's present form, (I concede), which is a good thing if it's reliability and ongoing refinement continue apace as per the Co's significant efforts with the '09 models. HOWEVER, (and that's a big one), again seems world wide, Suzuki could be doing its self a huge favor by bringing out a new fully modern "Jimney" replacement, but call it something else [new], maybe giving it a small turbo diesel, [THINK MODERN, PLEASE!], yes, again, with all that off road capability still remaining intact. A new one of sufficient quality/refinement also that it COULD sell here in the North American marketplace. That sort of a wished for niche vehicle is one which Suzuki provided "us" with for years on this side of the pond, up until the uninspired and boring Vitara appeared to "replace" the Sidekick. So one more time, give us a fully modern, less expensive, Sidekick sized Jimney replacement over here and in the rest of the world?, and that would round out the SUV line nicely. Will that happen? Most assuredly NOT if Suzuki chief focus continues to be [first] on seeking to emulate what others are doing, at the expense of what it/they once did best: making a small efficient affordable SUV.... In the meantime, sure hope the GV keeps 'em afloat here, along with help from the SX-4   Nwdsmn.
#60 of 67 XL7 Dead? by xostnot Jun 17, 2009 (9:25 pm)
Though I have seen another mention that Suzuki has dropped the XL7, the only "official" word I've come across is that they suspended production. That may be exactly correct, or an understated way of saying the model is dead. I understand they built only a handful of '09 XL7's.   I checked out this topic on my favourite Suzuke site, and the XL7 owners don't know any more about this either. A Suzuki rep commented that the XL7 got an extra hit from the move away from larger vehicles. Like you lamenting a Sidekick/Jimney, many wish there was an updated version of the previous XL-7.   While the XL7 sells in extremely low numbers in Canada, I was surprised to learn how many are sold in the US. Thousands, which could make it worth building them.   I hadn't heard that the new generation XL7 has reliability problems, and the owners' website doesn't appear to host an unusual number of issues.   A simplified offroad version of the SX-4 could be a hit. Replies to this message: norwoodsmn (Jun 21, 2009 5:13 pm)
#61 of 67 Re: XL7 Dead? [xostnot] by norwoodsmn Jun 21, 2009 (5:13 pm)
Replying to: xostnot (Jun 17, 2009 9:25 pm) Greetings again xostnot.   The XL-7 post I saw said, yes, production had been suspended in September owing to poor sales. Since then however, just within the past week the Co. decided to END production, (period). The North American plant here in Canada where they were built, will now be devoted exclusively to building the new gen Equinox.   I never quibbled with the fact that the Suzuki had as std. equipment, (for instance), a much superior engine to the one available in the Equinox. In many ways I was also pretty sure that the non off roadable gen 2 XL-7 would have been superior to it's root clone vehicle [perhaps] in other ways as well.... In the end however it chiefly came down to brand acceptance, IMO. Had, at any point, any past Suzuki SUV achieved comparable reliability, build quality, etc., etc., stats comparable with that of one of it's respective Toyota or Honda competitors, had the brand ever achieved such a "rep" via earning those credentials, and a "rep" likewise for it's dealer service network, (that wouldn't have hurt either too, would have it...?), with all that in place aforehand, the GM clone might have had some chance to have made it past it's considerable initial teething problems to have made it's mark.. But instead, the handwriting seemed on the wall from the start, to some of us...   If for example, someone had said to me, here: as a freebie you can have either an loaded Equinox, or a ditto, an XL-7, well, [I] am not sure what even [I] would have done. As just one sensible consideration?, for instance, which one might yield the better residual trade in value, and, and, and and.....? As to the mass market, it's pretty clear those unfamiliar with the brand were far more likely to have gone GM, (and did), when having had to actually pay for one themselves. No, don't know what the actual sales stats were, but surely FAR MORE Equinoxes were sold than XL-7's. Yes, there were some model to model differences, but in the end again, it didn't matter. Again therefore another root question remains, was it ever in Suzuki's best interests to make a GM cloned SUV at the expense of abandoning it's niche position of having always had a smaller less expensive SUV model in the lineup? The problem with the prior "little guy" on hand before the NGV appeared, (think the base 4 cyl Vitara), was, it was about as long in the tooth as a beaver which had not chewed wood since the pond thawed.... Ouch!   Now sort of through reverse engineering in a way, of course the new 4 cyl GV for '09 is quasi filling that entry level gap. But a supplemental model new smaller fully modern Jimney/4 door Sidekick sized SUV, would be guaranteed to sell well in the rest of the world, and one would hope, here too as their entry level SUV.   As to an orig gen XL-7, we came very close to having bought [a used one] this past year, after td'ing two of them fairly extensively, but... One pro evaluation of it which I came across stated: they took a mediocre handling vehicle, (the old GV/Vitara/chassis), and made a longer stretched mediocre handling vehicle out of it. I'd have to agree with that asessment completely. So I would have been afraid to have seen what bun might have popped out of the oven, had they based the next gen one on that same tired chassis/suspension setup. Instead, it turned out to be, hey, lets just emulate a GM SUV. Bad karma from the git go.   Again, count me in, as I sure hope they come up with a NEW smaller sized world market entry level model to supplement the NGV in the lineup, before a Chinese knockoff arrives here first. Surely the Suzuki version would be of much greater quality. I quite like the looks of the SX-4 too, but could they make a true bush beater out of it, based on that chassis? Seems the "rig" we may be thinking about here, needs to penned on a clean sheet of paper.    May we live in interesting times..   Nwdsmn.
#62 of 67 More XL7 thoughts by xostnot Jun 21, 2009 (9:09 pm)
My basic reaction to the new XL7 was that it was a blend of minvan and suv. The minivan people would choose to buy something that works even better as a minivan, such as a minivan; while those looking for an suv would choose something more suv-ish, like an suv. No shortage of choices in both. So the XL-7, in attempting to be too many things, ended up bland. Just like the Chrysler Pacifica. Mix many colors of paint and you get grey. People looking for a vehicle just a bit upscale are looking for distinctiveness and specialization, not blandness and versatility.   So the XL7 had quirky styling. Quirky can err on the side of being attractive, like the new Kia Soul; or be quirky unattractive, like the Aztek. The XL7 was quirky/unattractive. Nice engine? Too bad, the neighbours can't see the engine.   Like the Equator, the XL7 may have been relatively cheap to tool up for. But surely the XL7 hasn't repaid the development costs. Maybe Suzuki was desperate to utilize their stake in CAMI. Well, maybe they should have done more research into the styling. I find the Equinox more attractive than the XL7, and the Torrent even more so. They needed something inspired that hung together as do the new GV and the SX4. But no, the XL7 was a mishmash of unrelated styling elements. Surely they could have done better, but instead Suzuki now has another failure on their record.
#63 of 67 '09 Initial quality stats by norwoodsmn Jul 08, 2009 (11:09 am)
Now that's more like it! I'm pleased to note [here] I just saw a news clip re: the J.D. Power and Associates 2009 Initial Quality Study(SM). While there was no individual model data included, of great interest to long time Suzuki fans was the Co's having achieved the honor of showing the greatest degree of improvement of any mfgr for '09, by moving UP from 32nd place in '08, to NINTH IN 2009! Way to go! Of course we'll all have to hope that's not primarily due to their selling Nissan pickups now, (the "Equator"), as I imagine they have to be pretty reliable? Instead lets also hope all those significant '09 upgrades to the GV have been accompanied by like improvements in the area of "gremlin extermination". If so, next up ought to be a maturation of the quality of the dealership network. But any of 'em who survive this current "depression" in the auto industry, ought to be "keepers" thanks to the process of natural selection. But then comes a pretty important question though, how far [then] will you have to drive to have one serviced? Here the marque survives thanks to it's being one of a few different makes sold at the dealership. For stand alone Suzuki dealerships, these truly must be the toughest of times. Looking forward to seeing individual data on the '09 GV's, as time goes on...   Nwdsmn.
#64 of 67 JD Power and Daewoo's by xostnot Jul 08, 2009 (1:35 pm)
I didn't do the analysis myself, but I've read someone's comments that the '09 improvement in Suzuki's JDP reliability rating is because the inclusion of the disastrous Daewoo rebrand models has "timed out".   Unfortunately, Suzuki's Canadian sales for June were down something like 78% over 2008, the worst of all the brands. They aren't typically that bad, though. I haven't heard of any Suzuki dealers closing in the Vancouver area, though no doubt it's not fat city for them. Replies to this message: norwoodsmn (Jul 10, 2009 9:52 am)
#65 of 67 Re: JD Power and Daewoo's [xostnot] by norwoodsmn Jul 10, 2009 (9:52 am)
Replying to: xostnot (Jul 08, 2009 1:35 pm) The Dae-WOE Verona didn't make it to the '07 model year in the US, nor, I think? did it here either? Definitely not in the lineup here in '08. The barest of bare bones Daewoo Swift penalty box was still sold in '08 though, wasn't it, and still now too? Haven't been interested enough to check on that.   Older posts indicated "the real" Suzuki Swift was due here for the 2010 model year. That must still be true as they sure desperately do need it in the lineup. In upmarket form, it's considered a real "pocket rocket" where it is sold in the rest of the world. Adios DaeWOE, asap, and bring us that world market, modern Jimney replacement, when you get around to building it, Suzuki.   Nwdsmn.
#66 of 67 Re: 2009 JA [theguy] by jesb7978 Oct 03, 2009 (10:33 pm)
Replying to: theguy (Apr 11, 2009 6:26 pm) I am considering the 09 GV and have been strongly cautioned not to go through with it due to reliability. I have had a hard time finding anything more than a few specific negatives but Suzukis aren't very prevalent here in the lower 48. I was wondering what you think now that you have had your 09 for almost six months. I appreciate your feedback. Thanks! Replies to this message: xostnot (Oct 15, 2009 6:58 pm)
#67 of 67 Re: 2009 JA [jesb7978] by xostnot Oct 15, 2009 (6:58 pm)
Replying to: jesb7978 (Oct 03, 2009 10:33 pm) If you check Consumers Reports, you'll find the GV is not as good as a Rav4 or CRV for reliability, but like most modern cars it's still pretty good. Some say that CR hates Suzuki and their reviews reflect this. An unbiased source is Michael Karesh's true delta dot com, where the GV is about average.

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