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Classic Cars 50 Worst Cars of All Time
298 messages, Last post on May 11, 2009 at 1:53 PM
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Replying to: andys120 (Nov 20, 2008 1:52 pm) Having owned two Darts, I've often wondered the same thing. I remember an old comparison test done by some consumer magazine (not Consumer Reports, but something else, like Consumer Advocate or something?) where they tested the new crop of 1975 compacts. About the Dart, they said that it felt more like a well-preserved 1965 car than a brand-new 1975 car...but that wasn't a bad thing! I can't remember if the Dart won that comparison, but if it didn't, it still came in towarads the head of the pack. The only thing I can really think of is that by the mid-1970's, they were trying to make small cars handle and ride more like big cars, and maybe the Dart just couldn't do that? The Aspen/Volare had transverse-mounted torsion bars, which were supposed to isolate vibrations. They also started isolating the subframes from the cars in those days. Instead of having the subframe bolted directly to the structure of the car, they put these big, donut-sized rubber bushings in between. Years later, when those bushings go bad, it creates quite a driving experience, as the subrame, which carries the front suspension and the engine/transmission, sort of gets a mind of its own, and doesn't always handle quite in unison with the body! The Aspen/Volare were also wider than the Dart/Valiant. They had a wider rear track as well, but I think up front was about the same. Still, I wonder if they just opened up the rear wheel openings on the Dart/Valaint, if they couldn't just slip a wider rear under there? You can certainly put wider rims with more offset under there, which is sort of the same thing. Also, while they were wider on the outside, they weren't any wider inside...about 56" of shoulder room, which was about as wide as a compact got in those days. The Nova was about that, and I think the '78 Fairmont was as well. The Granada, Maverick, and Hornet were a bit narrower I think, more like 54-55". They might have had to make the cars wider though, to accommodate the more sloping windows. The Dart's actually did have a slight curve to them, but weren't that noticeable. I also wonder how hard it would have been to integrate proper 5 mph bumpers onto a Dart? They sort of skirted the issue by putting big rubber blocks on the bumpers, but I don't think they ever got around to using shock absorbers that would let the bumpers compress and then pop back out. Another issue with the Dart/Valiant is that the 2-door models were pillarless, and that might have been an issue when it came to rollover protection. GM actually eliminated all of its hardtop and convertible models from the 1973 midsized lineup in response to proposed government rollover standards, which ironically never materialized. I don't know how hard it would have been to just weld a B-pillar in there? The Duster/Demon/Dart Sport also lacked a B-pillar. They weren't true hardtops as the back windows flipped out rather than rolled down, but the column they were hinged on was just a thin chrome strip, and didn't provide any structural support. You can actually take it out and remove the window, and make the car look like a hardtop. I've also heard some people say that the '76 Aspen/Volare was essentially a heavily rebodied Dart, but I can't see how that could be true. Unless maybe some of the floorpan or rear subframe or something is still shared, or at least loosely related? It would be interesting to see how long the Dart would have been viable, if they kept it going with a major restyle, instead of replacing it with the Aspen/Volare? If they had, then I guess the LeBaron/Diplomat, Cordoba/Mirada, and even Imperial would have been based on it. Considering how quickly Chrysler was running out of money, I'm sure they still would have found a way to muff it up, somehow. |
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Gentlemen, keep it coming. I have been laughing my ass off reading all the accounts. My favorites: babying a Vega and still having 2 engines go in 60K miles, the Pontiac LeMans rental story, especially the first paragraph, and the mentions regarding rebadged crap like the Cimarron and the Mitsu Precis, yuck! Sorry, I know most of you went through great pains with these lemons, but looking back, I'm sure a lot of you just have to laugh at what passed for automobiles back in the day. I have some experiences with 80's POS's. FYI, I turned 17 in 1992: My first car was a 1982 Citation 4-door, blue. No matter how much I washed, waxed, and compounded, besides when it was wet, it looked like I had driven through the Sahara. It's undercarriage was so rusted, that at 6'3" tall, I sat lower than anyone in the passenger benchseat; it was so bad, it would scrape on speed bumps in parking lots. At one point, I had to stop on the side of the road, and rip a chunk of it off because the scraping noise was driving me mad! Can't forget the vertical radio, with aftermarket Panasonic tape deck, so you had to tilt your head to see the numbers well, and the cloth seats that each held about 4 pounds of dust and dirt. Here's the best one: the auto transmission practically gave you whiplash during the 1-2 shift if you attempted to drive the thing before the car was warmed up. One day, I made it from my sister's house to mine (1.5 miles, most of it up hills), caught all the green lights in light traffic, and never ONCE stepped on the accelerator, SWEAR TO GOD. But you know what, it cost me $200.00, less than that in repairs, and it lasted 14 months......until my brother-in-law borrowed it while I was away at college and it caught fire while he was driving it! Dishonorable mentions go to my sister's 1987 maroon Hyundai Excel, complete with its laughable power and steering that made you wish for the steering feel of Sega's great "Out Run" video game from that era! As a kid that was always on my bicycle, I went with 2 wheels more often than borrowing this heap. And of course, my oldest sister had a 1986 Chevy Spectrum (brand new-my dad bought it for my mom for a little under 10K, and then it was handed to my sis 2 years later). This POS had pads and rotors that needed replacing every 10K miles, negative acceleration, if that's even possible, and radiators, what radiators? By the way, when my mom was so nice (or not) to give my sis the Spectrum, she herself ended up with a used, 1984........Renault Alliance, the upgraded one with the Motor Trend Car of the Year window sticker! Wow, that was another crapbucket. Gotta love the 80's
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I was wondering if anyone had mentioned the Renault Alliance, then I read ldl20's message, above. Did anyone mention the the Eagle Medallion ('88-??), another Renault badged car that came with Chrysler's purchase of AMC? Incidentally, the Alliance and Medallion were decent designs, with some appealing attributes, such as excellent ride and fuel economy. Unfortunately, they were dreadfully executed, in terms of build quality, durability and reliability. They were very fragile cars, in their respective categories. The same could be said of the Eagle Premier, except in this case the fuel economy was only average. Chrysler also introduced a Dodge version of the Premier, the Monaco (a name Dodge had used in the '70s for its large cars).
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Nov 22, 2008 5:16 am) Now, when that car was new, he loved it. It was roomy, comfortable, and handled well. I thought it was good looking too, in an angular, boxy sort of way. It was a dark blue, and I think it had gray lower body cladding. I don't know what ultimately happened to the car though, as I didn't keep in contact with them that much. I think it did start to get troublesome though, and I don't think it was around for long. The local Pontiac/Dodge dealer (Bob Banning, you might know the name HP, since you're local) had a Monaco on their used car lot ages ago that I drove. I liked the car, but had heard enough about them by that time to still stay away! Plus, the first-gen Intrepid/Concorde was out by then, and we all knew how much better those cars would be.  I thought the Medallion was a neat car. I drove one of them once too, that was on a used car lot in Laurel. I thought it was packaged really well...roomy inside, given its external dimensions. And it was just offbeat enough that I thought it was kinda cool. Probably would be a pain to keep one of them running nowadays, though. |
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"...Bob Banning, you might know the name..." Sure do; I bought my '86 Grand Am from that dealership. They had a Pontiac and Dodge franchise back then. Is Bob Banning still in business? The next time I see you I'll share an interesting story about my experience with Bob Banning, that's easier to tell verbally than in writing.
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Nov 22, 2008 10:45 am) Interestingly, he went there to look at the Grand Am! He didn't like them though, because he didn't like the interior, so he ended up buying the LeBaron, used. This was April of 1990.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 23, 2008 2:58 pm) "I'd like an oil filter, spark plugs, and 2 dozen head gaskets, please"
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 23, 2008 3:04 pm) My guy got it running as decent as could be for $75. But he also told me that the turbo was shot, and compression was low in two cylinders, and to not sink another dime into the car! Within a month or so it started blowing sickly-sweet white smoke out the exhaust. In its defense I guess, the car did make it to about 115,000 miles and 9-10 years (it was late 1997 when it finally gave up). The light brown/champagne colored paint was still shiny, but you could see spots where it was starting to wear thin. I'm sure in a year or two it would've really gone to hell. That car had also gotten stolen a few times and taken on joyrides. Miraculously, it never got torn up in the process, but I'm sure it got driven hard. Oh, and the '75 Dart my grandparents bought turned out to be the worst car they ever owned, in their opinion. They had always been Ford people, but started liking Pontiacs in the 60's, so they bought a '67 Tempest and then a '71. The Dart sent them running back to Ford though, and they never strayed again! It used to stall out, and the dealer's service department never could find the problem, so they gave up and traded it on a '77 Granada, that promptly ate its transmission.  I think '75 was the first year that Chrysler put Lean Burn on the slant six, so that might have been what was causing it to act up so bad. |
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The problem with your grandparents' '75 Dart may have been that their car didn't have a catalytic converter, and the better engine tuning the converter permitted. The '76 Aspens and Volares could be ordered with or without a catalytic converter, or maybe some came with one while others, with the same engine, came without the converter. I know this seems awfully strange, but it's true for the first year ('76) AspensVolares, so I'm guessing it may be true for the '75 and '76 Darts as well, since they used the same engines. Why this was, I don't know. I know this to be true of the Aspens/Volares because my father-in-law bought a new '76 Volare. I had read that it was best to avoid the ones without converters because, in order to meet the prevailing emissions requirements, the engines were tunes to run very poorly. In addition to the driveability issues they didn't accelerate as well as the converted equipped ones. Anyhow, my father-in-law heeded my advice, and his Volare, a 318 V8, was a strong performer. In fact, it had surprising acceleration. Much quicker, for example, than my '78 LeMans with the 305. Build quality was awful, if not worse, however, but that's another matter. To its credit, that Volare also rode and handled very well for a family sedan of its day. The ride and the steering were much better than the Dart's. My parents had a Dart, so I was able to compare these two cars. The Aspen/Volare had the potential for being excellent cars if they had been assembled better and had inner fenders for rust protection. Inner fenders were added for '77 or '78, but the early ones rusted like the Vegas.
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Nov 23, 2008 9:23 pm) |
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