Last post on Jan 09, 2012 at 9:43 AM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Toyota Venza, Car Buying, Car Leasing, SUV
#446 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [jb_turner]
Dec 23, 2009 (7:17 am)
You'll see that my offer of $32,908 was actually only $23 over dealer's cost, but $258 below invoice. The invoice amount will include both the holdback and whsl fin reserve, so you have to be careful when discussing numbers/offers that you review what's included in the dealer's invoice amount and make sure you're only paying on the dealer's actual cost.
My offered amount of $32,908 was based on the dealer's cost of the car with desired options, plus destination charge and regional ad fee. I did not include the holdback or fin reserve fee in the dealer's cost.
People often brag about paying below invoice or paying a small amount over invoice. However, they don't exclude the holdback and fin reserve from invoice. These are amounts the dealer receives from Toyota, so in effect built in "profit" to them, even if the dealer sells the car below invoice amount.
#448 of 596 FWD vs AWD Venza
Dec 23, 2009 (6:49 pm)
For those of you who have been reading my posts about my negotiations for a Venza in the SF Bay Area, Dealer 1 who offered to sell me the 2010 6cyl FWD with premium #2, navigation, moon roof, floor mats and rear bumper protector for $32,900 was unable to locate the magnetic grey with ivory interior.
Dealer 2 who offered to sell me the exact same car for $32,800 only has it in silver, not the magnetic grey. I was told this car is simply not available in the Bay Area.
Dealer 1 offered to lower his price to $32,800 if I forgo the bumper protector and take delivery of the car in late January/early February. They have a car that they previously ordered on its way to the dealer. Dealer will provide me with the VIN and Vehicle Inquiry Report.
Alternatively, Dealer 1 has located a 2010 AWD with premium #2, navigation, moon roof, floor & cargo mats, and tow package that he's willing to sell for $34,200. That's $125 less than dealer's cost (= factory invoice - holdback - whsl fin reserve). This car is available later this week, so I could deduct the sales tax on our 2009 tax return.
Spouse thinks I should stick with the FWD b/c it's cheaper, gets better gas mileage and we'll never tow anything with our car. Can anyone comment on the gas mileage of the FWD versus AWD Venza? Should I stick with the FWD and forgo the tax deduction?
#449 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [jkim069]
Dec 24, 2009 (2:52 am)
Can you walk me through on your Dealer 1 vehicle again please? How did you conclude your price of $32908 was $258 below invoice? I must be missing something here.
What was the MSRP, Dealer Invoice (before holdback and financial reserve), and dealer net cost on that vehicle?
According to my calculation, the price you got was $293 over invoice.
$32908 (offer from dealer 1) - $32615 (invoice) = $293
NADA has a good options calculator. It offers detail descriptions of each option + mfg codes with MSRP and invoice prices listed.
Base: $28100 $25290
Destination: $750 $750
Pkg #2, LX: $4345 $3476
Navi___NV: $2580 $2085
Moonroof SR: $1050 $840
Floormat, CF: $269 $174
Total: MSRP$37094 INVOICE$32615
#450 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [actionjh]
Dec 24, 2009 (6:40 am)
Just go with the best OTD... we all pay it.
#451 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [actionjh]
Dec 24, 2009 (7:26 am)
See below for cost detail from Dealer 1. I got these amounts from the Vehicle Inquiry Report sent to me by Dealer 1.
It's basically the same as yours, but I included regional ad fee and destination charge in calculating dealer's cost, since those are costs they actually pay. Everything I've read says those are dealer costs you should expect to pay, so I included those amounts in my offer. However, I didn't include holdback or whsl fin reserve, since both those are amounts paid to the dealer by Toyota.
Hope that helps.
Base Price $24,447 $28,100
Factory Holdback ($562)
Premium #2 (LX) $3,476 $4,345
Navigation (NV) $2,085 $2,580
Panoramic Roof (SR) $840 $1,050
Floor & Cargo Mat $174 $269
Destination Charge $750 $750
Regional Ad Fee $489
Factory Invoice $32,271
Factory Holdback ($562)
Dealer's True Cost $32,833
Neg Price excl TTL $32,808 $37,094
Document Fees $55
Tax 9.75% $3,204
Drive-Out Price $36,586
#452 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [jb_turner]
Dec 24, 2009 (3:18 pm)
OTD price varies from state to state, county to county with different tax rates and fees invloved. It's not an apple to apple comparison.
For example, I am in Los Angeles County 9.75% Sales tax. Orange County (that's where Disneyland is) which is only 10 mins away from me is at 8.75%. 1% difference in sales tax on a $32000 vehicle is $320. Therefore, can't just compare OTD prices.
#453 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [jkim069]
Dec 24, 2009 (4:25 pm)
OK...Thank you for the detail again.
That's right, $750 destination and TDA (Toyota Dealer Advertising) fee are fixed cost that must be paid out. We can only tap into the 2% holdback + 1% financial reserve.
$10 gas is what Toyota pays the dealership for a full tank of gas. So the dealer will actually have to pony up another ~$33.50 to fill-up the tank before we drive off the lot. (Venza fuel tank 17.7gallons, assuming dealer pumps 15gallons to fill up $2.90/gallon = $43.50 - $10 credit from Toyota = $33.50 paid by the dealer).
What bothers me the most now is that Vehicle Inquiry Report generated from the dealership was showing different base price and invoice cost compared with Edmunds, KBB, carsdirect, and NADA. All the web sites have pretty much the same figures, but the numbers from the VIR is showing something different that I could not figure out.
Why was the Factory Invoice showing $32,271? How was that derived? Have you tried to figure out the numbers? No matter how I add or subtract the numbers from base price or from MSRP, nothing adds up to $32271. Maybe you can shed me some light.
And why did you subtract the holdback $562 from $24447 then add the holdback back to the said factory invoice again? $32271 + $562
From what I know, 2% holdback and 1% financial reserve are the money dealerships want to keep behind the scene away from the negotiating table. They won't want to share those 3% with the customers unless there's huge inventory pressure. Which is not the case for Venza. So, for that reason, I look up the invoice cost as suggested by the major auto web sites such as Edmunds and use that invoice cost as invoice baseline and not from the Vehicle Inquiry Report.
Copied from NADA site for reference:
#454 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [actionjh]
Dec 24, 2009 (4:47 pm)
If you were to purchase a car for 32K OTD from dealer A or the same car (apples to apples)for 33K OTD from dealer B... which would you choose?
Some people will get bogged down with invoice, MSRP, fees etc.... but at the end of the day you will purchase for an OTD price.
So why not shop OTD price?... we ALL pay an OTD price.
#455 of 596 Re: 2010 Venza V6 Fwd in SF Bay Area (East Bay) [jb_turner]
Dec 24, 2009 (5:12 pm)
The problem is.... chance of finding the same Venza with same MSRP from two dealerships is extremely low. Venza supply is tight.
I am having similar issue with jkim. Very difficult to find a white Venza with package #2 in stock. Therefore, negotiation so far hasn't been fruitful. Offering below invoice is out of the question. They just won't sell their only white Venza below invoice. The manager wouldn't give up that easily. They know in a week or two someone will walk in to the dealer and offer a higher price. If they had 5 of the same vehicles in stock, I am sure there's room to talk.
Now I just learned the invoice cost shown on Edmunds and Dealership Vehicle Inquiry Report were different. The Dealership VIR adds TDA and gas as part of the invoice cost. Even more variables to negotiate.