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What if you were in charge of GM?

874 messages,  Last post on Oct 28, 2009 at 10:20 AM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Automotive News, Classic Cars, Concept Cars, Future Vehicle


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#636 of 874
Re: Revamping GM part 2 [TIMGT5] by colloquor
Jun 26, 2009 (12:50 pm)
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Replying to: TIMGT5 (Jun 26, 2009 11:31 am)

This is an excellent post. You are spot on as to the European highways and surface streets. Theirs' put our roads to shame, with the possible exception of some of the roadways in France - hence the long suspension travel in most French vehicles.
 
Although the USA is currently the only superpower in the world, some aspects of our country are trending toward 3rd world status.
#637 of 874
Corker gets popped by steve_ HOST
Jun 26, 2009 (12:51 pm)
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"General Motors execs obviously won't admit it, but clearly politics played a part in their decision to build future small cars in Michigan instead of Tennessee. "
 
Maybe Corker Should Have Corked It
 
GM To Announce Michigan Gets Its Small Car Plant
 
In other GM news, "General Motors North America President Troy Clarke said the automaker has yet to find a model that is suitable to build at the GM-Toyota joint venture plant in California, New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. "
 
Nada For NUMMI, So Far
 
Finally, the HUMMER sale is in doubt and GM To Close Louisiana Truck Plant. (AutoObserver for all links)
#638 of 874
Re: Corker gets popped [steve_] by TIMGT5
Jun 26, 2009 (1:43 pm)
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Replying to: steve_ (Jun 26, 2009 12:51 pm)

As a buisness case this is a very bad move. As I said before the only way GM can build a competative "B" class car would be to manufacture it in a place with very low labor costs, whatever they roll out of there will lose them millions of dollars.
 
Keep in mind that 15 years of Cavaliers never made them a dime, its sole reason for exisitance was CAFE, if were a purely business decision that model would have either been built offshore or not at all. Same goes with the Ford Escort.
 
If GM is forced down this path, history will repeat itself.
#639 of 874
Re: Revamping GM part 2 [bumpy] by tlong
Jun 26, 2009 (2:01 pm)
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Replying to: bumpy (Jun 26, 2009 11:29 am)

Not-quite-so-short-answer: those really nice Buicks, Opels, etc. also come with a really nice price tag and come in configurations (size, powertrains) that the average American car buyer would demand a significant discount for as compensation. So, we're basically cheap %^#%^$%s, and get offered cheap %#%#^%$ cars.
 
Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me. BMW and MB don't have trouble charging a lot of $$ for luxurious cars. Buick name is just too tarnished in this country to pay that kind of money. Sort of like VW trying the Phateon. Why don't they bring those Chinese Buicks here and call them Caddys?
#640 of 874
Re: Revamping GM part 2 [TIMGT5] by tlong
Jun 26, 2009 (2:02 pm)
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Replying to: TIMGT5 (Jun 26, 2009 11:31 am)

One thing that Europe does very well is maintain its highways and surface streets. Drive through Germany and you will not see the potholed, cratered roads that you see too frequently in America. The Autobahn for example is 3X thicker than any interstate in America and its surface is glass smooth.
  
The result is that companies like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, et al, can focus much more intensley on their vehicle's driving dynamics. Where as the D3 had to concentrate on islolation and a absorbatant ride. The American versions of the German iron are actually "dumbed down" for our roads. On the super smooth autobahn surfaces everything rides well, even normally stiff cars here feel like lincoln town cars there.
So any car with uncertainty in its motion, lack of body control, and float are rejected by European buyers.
 
I don't really buy that, as there are also a LOT more cobblestone streets in Europe and the MBs, BMWs, Audis, do just fine there, too.
#641 of 874
Re: Corker gets popped [TIMGT5] by cooterbfd
Jun 26, 2009 (2:12 pm)
Reply

Replying to: TIMGT5 (Jun 26, 2009 1:43 pm)

".....As a buisness case this is a very bad move. As I said before the only way GM can build a competative "B" class car would be to manufacture it in a place with very low labor costs, whatever they roll out of there will lose them millions of dollars. "
 
Now, how is this possible when Toyota builds their Corrolla on a Union assembly line in a state with some of the highest taxes in the country (California)? Do they not make money on these cars???
#642 of 874
Re: Revamping GM part 2 [tlong] by TIMGT5
Jun 26, 2009 (2:15 pm)
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Replying to: tlong (Jun 26, 2009 2:02 pm)

Most of these city streets you refer to are driven on at very low speeds are closed off to automotive traffice altogether, but do a little research you find that Most German cars are set up firmer for the home market than here.
 
And yes the Autobahn is far superior in construction to any public road we have in the US.
#643 of 874
Re: Revamping GM part 2 [TIMGT5] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Jun 26, 2009 (2:51 pm)
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Replying to: TIMGT5 (Jun 26, 2009 2:15 pm)

With a rapidly crumbling infrastructure and $1000 speeding tickets in some states for going only 20 over the posted speed limit (just outside DC for instance) , I suspect that pretty soon we'll all be driving 4 cylinder tanks upholstered in foam rubber. Hey, sounds like Detroit in the 80s all over again!
#644 of 874
Re: Corker gets popped [cooterbfd] by TIMGT5
Jun 26, 2009 (4:20 pm)
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Jun 26, 2009 2:12 pm)

While the Freemont CA plant is unionized, it operates much more as a Toyota plant than a GM plant, the workers there make less in wages and benetits than their counterparts in MI do. Also that plant is more automated than plants GM and Ford have in MI (thank the UAW for that). So the overall cost of production is lower. It also helps that the plant is located in a costal state with easier access to Japan for shipping preassmbled components without a lot of extra OTR trucking.
 
The Corolla, Matix and Vibe are not classified as "B" cars. Toyota's B car is the Yaris, which is built overseas, GM's B car is the Chevy Aveo which is a rebadged Daweoo from South Korea, other cars in the B class are the Fit, The Versa, The Smart, and the upcoming Festiva from Ford, these cars slot below traditional compacts such as the Corolla, Civic, Sentra and Cobalt.
 
If anyone has information otherwise please correct me, but I have read that GM needs at least 17K-18K at retail on any car made in Michigan to break even.
#645 of 874
Re: Revamping GM part 2 [Mr_Shiftright] by TIMGT5
Jun 26, 2009 (4:24 pm)
Reply

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Jun 26, 2009 2:51 pm)

With a rapidly crumbling infrastructure and $1000 speeding tickets in some states for going only 20 over the posted speed limit (just outside DC for instance) , I suspect that pretty soon we'll all be driving 4 cylinder tanks upholstered in foam rubber. Hey, sounds like Detroit in the 80s all over again!
 
Considering that fellow in the white house wants to run the domestic car industry I am afraid your scenario could happen. I guess the majority of my fellow voters decided that freedom was worth less than the pie in the sky promise of a secure nanny state, sorry to get political on you guys.

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