Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views What if you were in charge of GM?
879 messages, Last post on Feb 17, 2010 at 6:49 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Replying to: carnaught (Feb 24, 2009 8:16 am) The simple fact is that car companies, like people, EARN their reputations. And they aren't changed overnight by a bunch of hand waving, a flashy advertising campaign or bashing consumers or Consumer Reports. They are changed by several years of consistently top-notch models. This takes time and effort, and, quite frankly, GM, with its multiple divisions and often clueless management, has displayed a very bad case of corporate ADD in this regard. GM builds some vehicles - Corvette, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, CTS, Malibu - that can run with the best in their respective classes. The problem is that those vehicles are drowning in a sea of mediocrity. Take the Malibu. It competes well with the Accord and Camry. It looks better than either one of them. But it sits in the showroom with the Aveo, which virtually defines "bottom-feeder" and is hopelessly outclassed by the Honda Fit, and the Cobalt, which is mediocrity personified in glass, steel, rubber and plastic. Even worse, it shares space with the Impala, which is outclassed by virtally all class rivals, looks larger than the Malibu, but usually ends up being LESS expensive because of discounts. So which is the "better" car? Is it the Malibu...it looks smaller, and historically the Malibu nameplate has slotted below the Impala nameplate. But it's also more expensive, and looks more "up to date" both inside and out. This sort of muddled message confuses customers, prevents both the Malibu and the Impala from breaking through the today's clutter of many makes and models, and blurs the identity of Chevrolet as a whole. Is Chevrolet the maker of competitive, attractive modern vehicles that offer American styling and nameplates (Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Traverse, Corvette, Malibu)? Or is it the seller of bargain-basement models that offer a low price and not much else (Aveo, Cobalt, Impala, Equinox, Colorado, Trailblazer)? One can say the same thing about the CTS, Enclave and G8 in relation to their divisional siblings...not to mention Cadillac, Buick and Pontiac as brands.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: grbeck (Feb 24, 2009 1:32 pm) Good Example: Cadillac / Audi /Hyundai / Corvette |
|
|
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 23, 2009 6:54 pm) http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/buick/enclave/101035082/cto.html?setzip=02809&vd- p=off http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/lexus/rx350/100975629/cto.html?setzip=02809&vdp=- off Enclave: True Cost to Own Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5-yr Total Depreciation $8,113 $3,920 $3,448 $3,056 $2,744 $21,281 Financing $2,262 $1,825 $1,355 $850 $308 $6,600 Insurance $1,645 $1,703 $1,762 $1,824 $1,851 $8,785 Taxes & Fees $2,695 $36 $36 $36 $36 $2,839 Fuel $2,524 $2,600 $2,678 $2,758 $2,841 $13,401 Maintenance $214 $556 $349 $1,481 $630 $3,230 Repairs $0 $0 $0 $297 $454 $751 Yearly Totals $17,453 $10,640 $9,628 $10,302 $8,864 $56,887 RX: Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5-yr Total Depreciation $1,924 $4,690 $4,127 $3,657 $3,282 $17,680 Financing $2,346 $1,892 $1,405 $882 $320 $6,845 Insurance $1,997 $2,067 $2,139 $2,214 $2,247 $10,664 Taxes & Fees $2,640 $36 $36 $36 $36 $2,784 Fuel $2,653 $2,733 $2,815 $2,899 $2,986 $14,086 Maintenance $332 $642 $367 $1,139 $1,600 $4,080 Repairs $0 $0 $0 $397 $607 $1,004 Yearly Totals $11,892 $12,060 $10,889 $11,224 $11,078 $57,143 What's amazing is that while the Enclave suffers from a $4,000 deficit in resale, it more than makes it up in fuel, ins, maint., and repair costs. $300 and change difference in ownewrship costs. Basically, A WASH!
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: cooterbfd (Feb 24, 2009 3:42 pm) We have to note where the Lexus sits on this aforementioned chart. It doesn't get any better. Look, someone is going to get the world's worst RX and someone else will buy the world's best Enclave, and their stories will totally contradict these charts. But that's what a large database is for. To defeat anecdotal evidence. If I were head of GM, I'd pin this chart to the office wall of every high level EXEC in the company.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 24, 2009 4:15 pm) That difference would be 1.34 problems for your Enclave vs. 0.94 problems for the RX. In discrete math that means 1 problem for Enclave vs 1 problem for RX. In the old days, there might have been a larger multiple difference between the number of problems reported by such a JD Powers report. But as JDP and CR have commented the differences in such numbers have shrunk in recent years. For me it would come down to the dealer and how they are with problems. The Buick dealer with which I've been familiar through lots of years would take good care of me and any problems. I've had no contact with the Lexus store other than seeing advertising and browsing their showroom and used lot a few years back. |
|
|
Replying to: steve_ (Feb 23, 2009 9:44 pm) Irregardless, There's NO American Entrepreneurial Spirit being driven by buying Imports or Transplants, even if they squeak out an extra couple thousand in value at trade-in time, 6 yrs down the road. So true cost to own is not quite that. Look around to see what the true cost of buying Japanese is. Reduced tax base. Reduced education of America. Falling markets and home values. Rising unemployment and higher tax rates. |
|
|
Replying to: dave8697 (Feb 24, 2009 7:49 pm) You could use the Contact Us link in the Help section I suppose but you may get a response like "our formula is proprietary." But you never know. The other "TCO" stuff is beyond the scope of Edmunds, but surely someone has tried to peg those costs somewhere. One example - The China Price. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: imidazol97 (Feb 24, 2009 6:49 pm)
|
|
|
Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 24, 2009 10:27 pm)
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: lemko (Feb 25, 2009 8:06 am) Also your idea of "no problems" and mine might be different, because you have owner bias and I don't. (Although I could have anti-Cadillac bias, which I don't, but I could). Also you could be (and probably are) exceptionally diligent compared to most car owners and thus have dealt with problems before they became break-downs. Or to put it bluntly---your "good" 1989 Cadillac does not prove that 1989 Cadillacs were "good". The very opposite is just as possible. We'd have to collect a good database to know more about it. The nice thing about JD Powers are CR is that they are merciless, unbiased and not in love with the cars they are testing (hopefully not anyway). They are statisticians. |
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views What if you were in charge of GM?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
