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What if you were in charge of GM?

874 messages,  Last post on Oct 28, 2009 at 10:20 AM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Automotive News, Classic Cars, Concept Cars, Future Vehicle


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#218 of 874
Re: here's the deal [imidazol97] by bpizzuti
Feb 23, 2009 (6:03 am)
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Feb 23, 2009 4:36 am)

Then there's the reality of the maintenance costs and the mandatory visits to the dealership for the required service using only their special priced fluids, mechanics, etc.,
 
Dex-cool ring a bell?
 
At the same time the ratings from JD Powers are indicated there are trivial differences in numbers of problems between the pop foreign brands and quality US brands,
 
JD Power only measures "initial quality," not the number of problems over the lifetime of a vehicle. The best data for that seems to be Consumer Reports (not that it's wonderful but it's better than nothing), which tends to indicate that GM, while having improved recently, still has more problems over the lifetime of the car than a Ford or a Honda, or even Hyundai in some cases.
#219 of 874
Re: here's the deal [bpizzuti] by imidazol97
Feb 23, 2009 (8:14 am)
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Feb 23, 2009 6:03 am)

>JD Power only measures "initial quality," not the number of problems over the lifetime of a vehicle.
 
NOT. This is the 3-year study by JDPowers:
3-year study JDP
#220 of 874
Re: here's the deal [imidazol97] by bpizzuti
Feb 23, 2009 (8:27 am)
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Feb 23, 2009 8:14 am)

3 years...so it's a study of the quality of the vehicle while under warranty, basically. That's better, but how many people dump their cars after 3 years? (Besides Chrysler owners, LOL!).
#221 of 874
Re: here's the deal [imidazol97] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Feb 23, 2009 (9:01 am)
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Feb 23, 2009 8:14 am)

JD Powers are statisticians who wear white shirts. These are not car guys who are scooting around on creepers and wiping greasy hands with red rags.
 
Resale value IS a big factor. It's something like considering the neighborhood that you buy a house in. In other words, there are factors external to your car (like reputation) that affect the value, and by extension, your total investment.
 
The Lexus and Buick might be closely matched in features and MSRP, and in fact the Buick might be just as good a car in every respect but the Lexus is gonna to kill the Buick on resale, to the tune of many thousands of dollars, not chump change.
 
This is of course a consequence of GM's past work.
#222 of 874
Re: here's the deal [Mr_Shiftright] by lemko
Feb 23, 2009 (9:56 am)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 23, 2009 9:01 am)

But you're paying a lot more up front for the Lexus too. In the end it's a wash.
#223 of 874
Re: here's the deal [lemko] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Feb 23, 2009 (9:57 am)
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Replying to: lemko (Feb 23, 2009 9:56 am)

Not if I'm reading the comparison chart correctly that someone just put up...it's a wash on MSRP between Enclave and RX
#224 of 874
Re: here's the deal [Mr_Shiftright] by lemko
Feb 23, 2009 (10:05 am)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 23, 2009 9:57 am)

Yeah, but in the real world you don't ever pay MSRP for the Buick whereas you pay MSRP on the Lexus or you don't get it. I dunno. Things may be different in this tough economy. Maybe Lexus dealers aren't as arrogant as they once were.
#225 of 874
Re: here's the deal [lemko] by bpizzuti
Feb 23, 2009 (10:21 am)
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Replying to: lemko (Feb 23, 2009 10:05 am)

Yeah, but in the real world you don't ever pay MSRP for the Buick whereas you pay MSRP on the Lexus
 
You realize that's a bad thing for Buick, right? Means no one is willing to pay that much for it...which means Buick has to discount in order to get people to buy. Which means GM has a harder time making money.
 
If the Buick was that good, they could say "MSRP, take it or leave it" and people would take it.
#226 of 874
Re: here's the deal [bpizzuti] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Feb 23, 2009 (10:34 am)
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Feb 23, 2009 10:21 am)

I think bpizzuti is right here. The Buick suffers depreciation at BOTH ends while the Lexus at neither end.
 
In other words, with the Buick, the factory suffers first, then the owner, but with Lexus the factory makes out first and the owner second, at resale time.
 
So the only "equal part" might be that both the Buick and Lexus owner get good service from their vehicles. There's a positive for both, should it prove true.
#227 of 874
What does GM have to compete with ... by kernick
Feb 23, 2009 (11:07 am)
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the Infiniti G37X? Notice I'm talking the AWD model. If I needed a vehicle that might be at the top of the wish-list.

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