Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech

44 messages, Last post on Mar 04, 2009 at 10:25 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus RX 400h, Mercedes-Benz M-Class, Car Comparisons, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, SUV

Diesel Vs. Hybrid: We Debate Two Technologies - For most of our test, the 2009 Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetec led the Lexus in our comparison. (more)

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#5 of 44 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech [ by gagrice Oct 21, 2008 (9:43 pm)
Replying to: KarenS (Oct 20, 2008 10:43 am) I really doubt anyone would consider the RX400h if they were shopping the ML32 CDI. The ML320 beat the RX400h in a head to head matchup cross country a couple years ago. In spite of the EPA rating the ML will get 30+ MPG on the highway. It will haul more weight and pull twice the Weight and travel at least a 1/3rd further on a tank of fuel. The leg room as mentioned in the back seat is much better on the ML320 CDI. I have sat in the back of the RX and for me it is a joke.Calling it an SUV is a misnomer. Lexus does not advise you to take it off road. So what good is it over any other AWD sedan? I am waiting for the matchup with the BMW X5 diesel in a month or so. Then you have a choice to make. Replies to this message: jrobe (Oct 22, 2008 6:20 pm) gagrice (Oct 25, 2008 6:50 am) wwest (Oct 25, 2008 9:41 am)
#6 of 44 by cumminsdiesel Oct 22, 2008 (9:08 am)
I am a bit of a gearhead myself and I love diesels in general (see my name ) The B-Tec in my mind wins hands down over the hybrid. Even the lack of the spare does not change this outcome for me: If I were to go to the Grand Canyon with a trailer, I would have made darn sure there are at least TWO good spares riding with me IN THAT SAME TRAILER That is not to mention a tire fix kit that you can get at any decent auto parts store... P.S. On a sidenote, going to the Grand Canyon, I would most likely drive a full-size Chevy (Tahoe, Sub, or Avalanche.)
#7 of 44 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech [ [gagrice] by jrobe Oct 22, 2008 (6:20 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Oct 21, 2008 9:43 pm) "In spite of the EPA rating the ML will get 30+ MPG on the highway. " LOL That is a good one. Please show us a review where anyone got over 30 mpg with a ML320. With combined driving, 20 mpg would be much closer to reality. That doesn't mean it isn't a great vehicle but mileage is a major difference in this comparison and this is important to many people these days. Replies to this message: gagrice (Oct 25, 2008 6:50 am) wwest (Oct 25, 2008 9:41 am)
#8 of 44 I'll try to by dhamilton Oct 22, 2008 (9:28 pm)
give a couple reasons against the Lexus. 1. Unless it's been tested since 2006, the RX get's a poor crash test rating in rear collisions. 2. If you go to the Insurance Institute for highway safety, and look up insurance pay outs for loss of life and limb, you'll see that Toyota/ Lexus products rank near the bottom in said categories. 3. Which brings me to my last point. I don't for a second think that anything Toyota makes is screwed together nearly as well as anything from Germany. Folks can talk about reliability all they want, but I'm talking about a car that will keep your family safe in a high speed collision. They handle poorly, brake poorly, and are marketed to people who don't like cars, and treat their car as an appliance. Toyota/Lexus= Marketing Hype. Replies to this message: to626n (Oct 23, 2008 2:13 am)
#9 of 44 Re: I'll try to [dhamilton] by to626n Oct 23, 2008 (2:13 am)
Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 22, 2008 9:28 pm) " If you go to the Insurance Institute for highway safety, and look up insurance pay outs for loss of life and limb, you'll see that Toyota/ Lexus products rank near the bottom in said categories." If you bothered to read the whole article you would have understood that it was not an article about "loss of life and limb." Rather the article was simply about the higher cost of repairing a hybrid car. That is no surprise to me considering the complex nature of hybrids. Look at all the vehicles IIHS has tested you will see that Lexus does quite well. Sometimes even better than its direct German competition. According to the IIHS the Lexus IS is safer than the new Mercedes C Class. As a matter of fact EVERY Lexus and Toyota model that is currently on sale is ranked as good overall according to IIHS. Many of them earning "best picks" designations. Toyota products will most definitely keep your family safe in high speed collisions, not to mention they last longer than anything from Germany.
#10 of 44 by cumminsdiesel Oct 23, 2008 (8:42 am)
Speaking about the 30+ MPG for the ML, I have had a chance to drive one (non-B-Tec, just a regular CDI) about a year ago. On a highway, with a steady foot on the pedal, and not going above 65-70MPH, the more realistic number is more like 27-28MPG. Yes, it will get that much. But then again, under the same circumstances I get a stable 21MPG with my V8 GMC Sierra (4.8L, 4x4, 3.42 rear end.)
#11 of 44 by cumminsdiesel Oct 23, 2008 (8:43 am)
As for crashworthiness of Asian vehicles, there is a joke running around: - Germans put thicker metal in their beer cans, than Japanese put in their vehicles...
#12 of 44 by cumminsdiesel Oct 23, 2008 (11:39 am)
1. Somehow, if I had to be in an accident, I'd rather be in a European car, not Asian. 2. My neighbor has a 1980's S-Class (W126 bodystyle.) Drives it regularly. I don't see many Asian vehicles on the roads from the 1980's...
#13 of 44 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech [ by gagrice Oct 25, 2008 (6:50 am)
Replying to: jrobe (Oct 22, 2008 6:20 pm) This cross country matchup was well covered by the press. The ML320 CDI clearly beat the Lexus RX400h. If you want a towny car why would you buy an SUV? The RX400h is purely a town car with some added benefit if it snows. The Mercedes ML 320 CDI was compared with the Lexus RX 400h and, over the course of the run, the Mercedes was 11% more fuel efficient at 31.0 mpg compared to 27.7 mpg for the Lexus. In a way, this is not surprising, as a hybrid is very efficient around town, but will give almost no fuel saving at high speed (when the electric motors do not operate). More surprisingly, the testers said that the hybrid was only 1.7% more efficient around town at 24.56 mpg compared to 24.12 mpg. Average total consumption for the Mercedes over the 5,200-kilometer trip (3,232 miles) was 9.2 l/100km (25.6 mpg), while the Lexus came in at 10.2 l/100km (23 mpg). http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08/diesel_bests_hy.html Replies to this message: wwest (Oct 25, 2008 9:41 am)
#14 of 44 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech [ [gagrice] by wwest Oct 25, 2008 (9:41 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Oct 25, 2008 6:50 am) "...no fuel saving at high speed (when the electric motors do not operate). The HSD CVT cannot be operational absent at least one of the electric motors being powered at all times. Additionally anytime you accelerate at even the slightest level the electrics will ALWAYS kick in as an aid. So it is not at all surprising that the RX400h does not do well in a highway driving test, FE comparison, as it is operating at a definite disadvantage. On the highway the only method, typically, for recharging the hybrid battery is via the ICE. Pretty LOSSY path, that.