Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech

48 messages, Last post on Jul 23, 2009 at 8:23 AM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus RX 400h, Mercedes-Benz M-Class, Car Comparisons, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, SUV

Diesel Vs. Hybrid: We Debate Two Technologies - For most of our test, the 2009 Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetec led the Lexus in our comparison. (more)

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#13 of 48 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech [ by gagrice Oct 25, 2008 (5:50 am)
Replying to: jrobe (Oct 22, 2008 5:20 pm) This cross country matchup was well covered by the press. The ML320 CDI clearly beat the Lexus RX400h. If you want a towny car why would you buy an SUV? The RX400h is purely a town car with some added benefit if it snows. The Mercedes ML 320 CDI was compared with the Lexus RX 400h and, over the course of the run, the Mercedes was 11% more fuel efficient at 31.0 mpg compared to 27.7 mpg for the Lexus. In a way, this is not surprising, as a hybrid is very efficient around town, but will give almost no fuel saving at high speed (when the electric motors do not operate). More surprisingly, the testers said that the hybrid was only 1.7% more efficient around town at 24.56 mpg compared to 24.12 mpg. Average total consumption for the Mercedes over the 5,200-kilometer trip (3,232 miles) was 9.2 l/100km (25.6 mpg), while the Lexus came in at 10.2 l/100km (23 mpg). http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/08/diesel_bests_hy.html Replies to this message: wwest (Oct 25, 2008 8:41 am)
#14 of 48 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech [ [gagrice] by wwest Oct 25, 2008 (8:41 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Oct 25, 2008 5:50 am) "...no fuel saving at high speed (when the electric motors do not operate). The HSD CVT cannot be operational absent at least one of the electric motors being powered at all times. Additionally anytime you accelerate at even the slightest level the electrics will ALWAYS kick in as an aid. So it is not at all surprising that the RX400h does not do well in a highway driving test, FE comparison, as it is operating at a definite disadvantage. On the highway the only method, typically, for recharging the hybrid battery is via the ICE. Pretty LOSSY path, that.
#15 of 48 by cumminsdiesel Oct 25, 2008 (3:24 pm)
OK, folks. Like I said before, diesel rules. After all, there has to be a reason why it has been around for over a hundred years... Hybrid is more of a gimmick. If you want to impress your tree-hugging friends over the cup of soy milk, buy one and get a good mileage out of it (if only in the conversations.) Me, I'd rather have a beer... Replies to this message: wwest (Oct 26, 2008 11:32 am) gagrice (Oct 26, 2008 3:23 pm) wwest (Oct 27, 2008 9:31 am) and 1 more...
#16 of 48 Re: [cumminsdiesel] by wwest Oct 26, 2008 (11:32 am)
Replying to: cumminsdiesel (Oct 25, 2008 3:24 pm) "..Diesel rules..." In what context..?? Diesel fuel, "traditional" diesel fuel, running in an engine so equipped, or... Low octane gasoline running in an HCCI, dieseling, mode....?? Personally I will vote for a CNG hybrid running in HCCI mode. Replies to this message: gagrice (Oct 26, 2008 3:23 pm) wwest (Oct 27, 2008 9:31 am) gagrice (Oct 27, 2008 3:59 pm)
#17 of 48 Re: [wwest] by gagrice Oct 26, 2008 (3:23 pm)
Replying to: wwest (Oct 26, 2008 11:32 am) I don't see CNG as more than localized fuel for vehicles. A big share of the buses and taxis in San Diego are CNG. Great fuel for short hops. No way you could drive a Civic GX to Las Vegas from here. We live on the outskirts of metro San Diego and we don't have natural gas. You want an SUV type vehicle with decent range, diesel is the way to go. Replies to this message: wwest (Oct 27, 2008 9:31 am) gagrice (Oct 27, 2008 3:59 pm)
#18 of 48 Re: [gagrice] by wwest Oct 27, 2008 (9:31 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Oct 26, 2008 3:23 pm) CNG is <$1.50 per equivalent "gallon". Replies to this message: gagrice (Oct 27, 2008 3:59 pm)
#19 of 48 Re: [wwest] by gagrice Oct 27, 2008 (3:59 pm)
Replying to: wwest (Oct 27, 2008 9:31 am) CNG has some distinct advantages and price is one of them. Range and availability are the major downsides. If I was commuting and had natural gas the GX would be at or near the top of the list.
#20 of 48 Tell Me How by butchp Nov 03, 2008 (7:38 am)
Replying to: jrobe (Oct 21, 2008 6:13 pm) I had a 2008 ML350 which was a great car. I could not get beyond 15MPG with my running around burb driving. When the gas went to 4.69 a gallon for premium, I panicked, traded by 3100 mile Benz for a 2008 RX400H. I had owned three or 4 RX models (gasoline) and was always happy although they were slightly underpowered. The RX400h is quick, but it is not built as well as the Benz. I have squeaks and rattles in the vehicle that I did not experience in my prior Lexuses. My biggest complaint is I cant get more than 21mpg no matter what I do. It's still a savings over the Benz, but the 400h cost just under $50k fully optioned. This is not an economy car, it's a luxury car. If I thought the gas was coming back to reality I would have kept my Benz. The rear bumper is automatically dented if you tap the car behind you when you parallel park in the city. I had to buy a bumper pad to protect it. What are bumpers made for. Especially in Manhattan. The car is just not as durable as theML. A German car is a German Car. The Japanese have done a find job with the Lexus and infinity, but this particular model is falling short in all areas. If gas continues to come down I predict I will own another ML in some form within the year. All the beefs put forth in these messages are valid. But tell me, what am I doing wrong for the mileage. I am using premium, I dont beat the car, I'm in stop and go traffic, etc. Thanks Replies to this message: gagrice (Nov 03, 2008 7:54 am) finl0573 (Jul 21, 2009 10:37 am)
#21 of 48 Re: Tell Me How [butchp] by gagrice Nov 03, 2008 (7:54 am)
Replying to: butchp (Nov 03, 2008 7:38 am) But tell me, what am I doing wrong for the mileage. I am using premium, I dont beat the car, I'm in stop and go traffic, etc. You jumped too soon. If you do go back to Mercedes, get the diesel. You will probably get better on the highway than the RX400h. I think Lexus like Toyota started cutting corners and it shows. We have a 1990 LS400 that is still a solid car. I rode in a friends RX and would not give you a nickel for the car. If yours is the 4x4 you are probably getting about average or a little below. I have seen people complain they were only getting 17 MPG with the RX400h. You have to drive like a granny to get real good mileage with that car. You might want to hold on until BMW releases their X5 diesel next month. I am waiting to drive it before I get serious about replacing my gas guzzling 07 Sequoia.
#22 of 48 Agreed by dhamilton Nov 03, 2008 (9:26 am)
Any German car is better built than a Toyo/Lexus on it's best day. My wife has had her ML350 for just 3 days now. I'm sure that fuel economy is in keeping with the size, utility, and function of the vehicle. It's Autobahn engineering that makes the difference. German cars are overbuilt for the American market. I'll gladly eat a few repairs to drive something better engineered. Replies to this message: Llewellyn (Dec 21, 2008 5:07 pm) gagrice (Dec 21, 2008 7:31 pm)