Article Comments - 2009 Lexus RX400h vs. Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetech

48 messages, Last post on Jul 23, 2009 at 8:23 AM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus RX 400h, Mercedes-Benz M-Class, Car Comparisons, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, SUV

Diesel Vs. Hybrid: We Debate Two Technologies - For most of our test, the 2009 Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetec led the Lexus in our comparison. (more)

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#39 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [wwest] by asa2 Feb 01, 2009 (4:08 pm)
Replying to: wwest (Jan 30, 2009 9:16 am) Everyone is entitled to an opinion. There is no way anyone is going to convince me a Lexus/Infiniti/Acura or any of the "pay for the badge but it's really a Toyota/Nissan/Honda" cars are built as solidly as a Benz. Just the weight and solid feel of something as simple as closing the doors vs. the RX is all telling. The RX has a plastic looking interior, is not as comfortable and for all intent and purpose does not perform as well as 4MATIC in ice/snow. I will say that it's cheaper to own and Japanese do have something to be said for them as to maintenance factors, but other than that, it's pretty moot. A Benz is just about the most solid car out there IMHO. I mean come on, do you really think someone would choose an RX over an ML for any reason other than cost? Replies to this message: wwest (Feb 02, 2009 10:44 am) gagrice (Feb 02, 2009 12:14 pm) asa2 (Feb 03, 2009 5:17 am) kurtamaxxxguy (Mar 04, 2009 1:10 pm) and 4 more...
#40 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [asa2] by wwest Feb 02, 2009 (10:44 am)
Replying to: asa2 (Feb 01, 2009 4:08 pm) '..choose an RX over an ML for any reason other than cost...? Well, yes, let's start with the absolute arrogance (unwarranted arrogance) of the salespersons and dealership management. "plastic looking interior" Yes, the wood grain (and virtially everything else) in the RX is so perfectly fitted/finished/polished it makes it look plasticky. A few "natural" flaws here and there in the wood would actually help. The addition of brushed aluminum panels in the later models didn't help. Even though the Benz has a much better "base" AWD system, R/awd(*) system, and a fully functional defrost/defog/demist system, I would probably still pay a preminum for the new 2010 RX350 or even the Acura RDX (SH-AWD) over the ML. * R/awd not R/AWD since TC braking and engine dethrottling is used to enforce awd functionality, a poor second (third, fourth..??) design choice. Does the ML yet have the ability to turn off TC..?? Replies to this message: gagrice (Feb 02, 2009 12:14 pm) asa2 (Feb 03, 2009 5:17 am) kurtamaxxxguy (Mar 04, 2009 1:10 pm) gagrice (Mar 04, 2009 9:25 pm) and 3 more...
#41 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [wwest] by gagrice Feb 02, 2009 (12:14 pm)
Replying to: wwest (Feb 02, 2009 10:44 am) Not really sure the RX350 would be in the same class with the ML320 CDI. The RX is 900 lbs lighter and will not tow half as much as the ML. Smaller interior by a lot. I think the only reason they are compared here is for the mileage contest between the ML320 CDI and the RX400h. Which the diesel beat in a cross country matchup a few years ago. For me I could not get past the looks of the Lexus. It would be good to see an updated matchup, though again they are in an entirely different class. I find the X5 diesel a much better competitor for the ML diesel. I don't suppose you would consider the RX to be in the X5s league? I agree with asa2 on the Lexus dealers arrogance & ignorance. Another reason they are off my list. I did check out the LX470 when I bought the Sequoia. Not the brightest sales man I have come across. The LX we looked at was pearl white my favorite color. It had a blemish in the paint on the hood. The salesman said. Oh we can touch that up... We left on that note.
#42 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [wwest] by asa2 Feb 03, 2009 (5:17 am)
Replying to: wwest (Feb 02, 2009 10:44 am) Are you referring to Lexus or Mercedez-Benz Dealership arrogance? I found my particular salesperson and dealership here in coastal NJ to be the most informed, respectful and truly candid folks I've ever dealt with and I've dealt with everything from Nissan as a kid out of college on up to Range Rover just before Benz. In fairness, I will note I did visit one other local dealership and I found them run of the mill-standard dealers. The guy I dealt with was and continues to be very attentive (we ran over a huge screw and needed to have tire work done). I will never go anywhere else and as a matter of fact, have referred several friends who all agree-best experience ever when buying a car. Everything was set from radio stations to phones-truly a pleasure. I can't comment on Lexus dealerships b/c I would never pay the price for a badge that says Lexus instead of Toyota. It baffles me to this day how Lexus, Infiniti and even Acura manage to get customers to pay the prices they do basically for a Toyota, Nissan or Honda. Astonishing. 08 4MATIC is the best AWD I've experienced yet as well-significantly better than both the 02 BMW X5 4.4 or 05 Range Rover HSE I leased in past. It's just a fun, very safe car to drive. But just my opinion. The odd thing is, I was never a Benz fan until we got the ML. I even chose a BMW 750 over Benz S-class back in 04-won't happen again. Especially with new designs coming from Benz. Replies to this message: kurtamaxxxguy (Mar 04, 2009 1:10 pm) gagrice (Mar 04, 2009 9:25 pm) finl0573 (Jul 21, 2009 10:39 am) and 2 more...
#43 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [asa2] by kurtamaxxxguy Mar 04, 2009 (1:10 pm)
Replying to: asa2 (Feb 03, 2009 5:17 am) Lexus dealers vary widely. The one I dealt within Santa Clarita was strictly old school and did a superb job convincing me __not__ to buy a Lexus. On other hand, the Lexus dealer in Portland OR was well finished, polite, helpful and informative, all of which led to an RX400h sale to a family member (I was present during the sale). Unfortunately the RH450h is bigger and heavier, which impressed neither of us. Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 04, 2009 9:25 pm) finl0573 (Jul 21, 2009 10:39 am) gagrice (Jul 21, 2009 12:19 pm) wwest (Jul 23, 2009 8:23 am)
#44 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [kurtamaxxxguy] by gagrice Mar 04, 2009 (9:25 pm)
Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Mar 04, 2009 1:10 pm) Is Lexus going to continue the RX hybrid. I don't see even a 2009 model. Not sure of what model you are referring to. I see it. I think they are trying to compete with the X6 which to my understanding is not selling well at all. They must have skipped 2009 to get rid of a bunch of excess inventory. Should be some good buys on the 2008 models. Replies to this message: finl0573 (Jul 21, 2009 10:39 am) gagrice (Jul 21, 2009 12:19 pm) wwest (Jul 23, 2009 8:23 am)
#45 of 48 Re: Tell Me How you are getting that gas mileage by finl0573 Jul 21, 2009 (10:37 am)
Replying to: butchp (Nov 03, 2008 7:38 am) I never have seen anywhere north of 22.2 MPG. My wife is the primary driver and we never get anywhere near the gas mileage that was stated on the sticker, consumer reports or edmunds, but apparently others are. is this a problem with my car?
#46 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [gagrice] by finl0573 Jul 21, 2009 (10:39 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Mar 04, 2009 9:25 pm) There was no 2009 model. They just kept selling teh 2008, until the 2010 was ready. They pulled a fast one and told us no new changes to the 2009 because there woudl be no 2009. if we had known the 2010 would comeoout two months after we bought our 2008/2009, we woudl have waited. bad dealers..... Replies to this message: gagrice (Jul 21, 2009 12:19 pm) wwest (Jul 23, 2009 8:23 am)
#47 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [finl0573] by gagrice Jul 21, 2009 (12:19 pm)
Replying to: finl0573 (Jul 21, 2009 10:39 am) I have been into our local Lexus dealership several times. Even considered another Lexus a time or two. The last time we got a salesman that was so lacking in knowledge of cars it was embarrassing. He was used cars salesman to the max, sleazy. Lexus dealers from my experience are highly over rated and some down right dishonest. I would much rather deal with the Acura, BMW or MB dealer closest to us. All owned by Penske. I am more likely to buy an ML320 CDI than the RX hybrid. The offroad limitations would kill the RX for me.
#48 of 48 Re: Reality check re: mpg [finl0573] by wwest Jul 23, 2009 (8:23 am)
Replying to: finl0573 (Jul 21, 2009 10:39 am) My guess the introduction of the RX450h was delayed to 2010 because the issue of adapting a 6 cylinder engine to use the Atkinson cycle was not so simple. The solution seems to be to not to run in the Atkibson cycle at low throttle settings. The RX450h V6 runs in standard "Otto" mode for low, cruising, throttle settings when the intake manifold reverse flow/pulse noise would be intrusive. Interesting, and BRILLANT solution. Ivory soap, so pure, it floats. You only get the intrusive intake manifold "noise" in power mode wherein it is to be somewhat expected. And the PLUS is that running in Otto mode, 12:1 CR, increases the engine fuel efficiency 89% of the time.