Last post on May 07, 2013 at 4:03 PM
You are in the Ford Flex
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Ford Flex, Chevrolet Traverse, Car Comparisons, Wagon, SUV
#10 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Nov 11, 2008 (5:56 pm)
Actually what is ailing the American Car companies is there agreements with the Unions over the last 30 years which have made it much more difficult to compete in the world market. Case in point GM is the number one car maker in China, very successful in Brasil and Chevy is the number one car in eastern Europe. GM is producing incredible cars right now and all are receiving the highest in ratings and consumer satisfaction. We own six cars right now with all of the kids cars factored in with only one foreign car, a Honda civic and if I had to get rid of one of them it would be the Honda, compared to the other American cars we have this is without a doubt the worst all around, and the worst car I have ever owned.
#11 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Nov 11, 2008 (6:03 pm)
I saw the Traverse today at the dealership while I was having mu oil changed and it looked way better in person than it does online. The quality inside was incredible, enough so that I had to at least sit in it for a while and look around. It has the same controls as my Avalanche LTZ and seems to have taken a styling que from the Malibu, very nice. I would definantly consider this if I still had all five of my kids at home. If GM keeps putting cars out like this they will easily win the quality and styling wars with Toyota and Honda.
#12 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Nov 13, 2008 (2:22 pm)
This opinion is directed at all who posted here about so-called Asian quality...
"Quality Surveys" are based on public opinion. Which in turn is based more on TV commercials rather than true reality. TV commercials where Toyota often flat out lies. (anyone recall the "meteor proof" commercial? Tell me that wasn't a lie...)
Bottom line, GM & Ford today build a car as good, and in some cases BETTER than any asian car maker. (Buick has been rating higher than Lexus!!!!) Toyota & Honda earned quality ratings in the 80's when their cars were NOT very heavy on features and parts. SO of course they had higher quality. Now days, all cars are basically built the same. Toyota tries so hard to keep the quality rating by lying to their customers. They have been sued by a few governments (not here in the US yet.... yet...) because they hold back safety recalls on their vehicles rather than doing the right think and protecting the consumer. You have to keep in mind that Toyota and Honda did not have to endure the "Nader Era" where consumerism was bashed into the heads of the Big 3 US automakers. So Toyota and Honda feel they can get away with a lot of things that they Big 3 never even try in advertising and truth about their products. Not that all don't try, but the Asian makers do push the limits far beyond what I feel is acceptable.
Today, to call a US made auto poor in quality just shows pure stupidity. I drove Asian vehicles in the 80's. Today I drive American. Why? First and foremost: Simply because I am American and I love my country. If you find fault in that, then you need to re-examine your priorities... I also drive them because they are less costly and very good in quality. I've proven that to myself, so I can say that with no reservations.
I saw and drove the quality increases through the 90's into today, and it was amazing! My first US made truck was a '92 model, then I bought a '97 and it was increadably better, today I still drive the 2000 truck simply because it's so good. Never had a reason to trade it in (but just want to try something different now... so I'm shopping.) While lately I've seen Asian quality has tanked. For example: A couple months ago, I had to laugh when I walked past a new Camry in a Wal-Mart parking lot where the driver was unable to turn off their alarm after the drive simply starting the car. Poor girl had to drive it home flashing and beeping. Sorry, the "quality" in Toyota is no longer there. Another example is a family member who owns a 2000 Camry, the door handles fell off last year. I have a 2000 year model Chevy that has had zero problems, period. Both of us treat our vehicles with great care, but her's continues to cause more and more issues as it gets older. Her interior is cracking and peeling, mine still looks rather new. Today she's got the Chevy Malibu in mind, and can't wait to get far far away from Toyota on her next vehicle. Of course that's my experience, but more and more often it's becoming the experience of a LOT of people. Asian car quality is no longer the best.
Another thing that bugs me is the "well they're made here" argument. Sure, but building a car is only 1/2 the cost. If you still buy foreign, then you are sending all the profits overseas, and away from the American economy. There is still the cost of engineering and support, all which keep MORE jobs here in the US when we buy US made vehicles. I care about the future US that my kids will live in. Why don't you?
If you really think that perceived "quality" of the lying japanese automakers is worth the reduction in your own country's GDP, I think that a reality check is in order. Both Ford and GM build cars worthy of any consumer's consideration today. Using the excuse of quality is no longer acceptable or realistic. If you find problem with that, don't look at me, I'm not the one with the real problem here... Sure, that's a strong opinion, but I'm sticking to it. No I don't have a Confederate flag in my rear window, so don't stereotype. You'll only fail.
Now as far as the Flex vs. Traverse? I think the reviewer was tilted only toward what he thought was good looking. Feature wize, I kinda like the Flex (I LOVE the Microsoft controlled electronics that Ford has in their vehicles today. Absolutely love it!) But, ride comfort and usability for me win out hands down. With that and I just think the Traverse looks better, so I disagree with the video reviewer's opinion. I actually think the Buick version of this SUV looks the best, but I can't get a feature set in the price range I want on the Buick, so I'm heavily considering the Traverse. And, I'll buy one with a piece of mind that I bought a very high quality vehicle that will last as long as I need it to, and that my money was properly spent on things that matter, more than percieved opinion shaped by over-commercialization and incorrect statements.
#13 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [narg]
Nov 13, 2008 (6:23 pm)
Have you forgotten that Ford, Chevy, and Dodge sell their vehicles overseas? In fact if it wasn't for their overseas markets they would be more in debt and probably out of business. So when the people of other countries buy American vehicles they are sending money overseas also to America. American car companies don't make enough money to pay all their employees without selling cars overseas. So the people who buy American vehicles in other countries are helping to keep people in America employed. If you think we should not buy foreign cars then maybe we shouldn't buy their oil also. Then the oil companies can charge $12 a gallon and we can ride around in 30 gallon American made SUVs. Don't forget how telephone service was when there was only AT&T. Competition can sometimes make things better. Although I do think American quality has gotten better (I love the Traverse) it basically boils down to personal choice. Even though we see things differently, just buying American is not the answer.
#14 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [narg]
Nov 18, 2008 (12:07 pm)
I have also looked at the Traverse and think it is a good looking large CUV. Similar to the Buick in some details. The GMC Acadia is the more traditional SUV styling and looks handsome.
My wife and I looked at a Honda Pilot and a Chevy Traverse and my wife who usually favors imports thought the interior design and quality was better in the Chevy.
one thing though Narg - I would resist quoting anecdotes because someone else will have a story where the import was better than the domestic. I would recommend going to www.truedelta.com which rates reliability using statistics rather than anecdotes.
#15 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [zone4]
Nov 23, 2008 (7:43 pm)
Nope, zone4, I didn't forget about others. And YES competition is a very good thing. In this case it was an EXTREMELY good thing, as I stated that now American made cars and trucks are vastly better than before, and today becoming better than any Asian made vehicle. (P.S. don't get me started on the telecom thing, remember it blew up in the early 2000's due to competition problems. So sometimes competition can be bad too.)
In the context of this conversion, yes buying American is a very good answer. Is it the perfect answer? None of us can answer that, so I'm not going that far. How far will I go? Well, to start with, there is a 2 day old Traverse now sitting in my driveway (WOOOT!!) I test drove a Ford Flex, and loved it too. But GM's incentives and the ride of the Traverse beat the Flex. The Flex had some better features, but I just "fit" the Traverse as if "fit" me better than the Flex. Either of these two would be a much better choice than any foriegn crossover SUV today. I think that many good reviews say the same thing, as like in JD Powers showing initial quality of American vehicles outdoing foriegn makers today.
It's an exciting time in the car market today. Competition has brought us here. It's also seperated folks from reality, as the advertising has somewhat brainwashed a few too many folks, IMHO.
Basically zone4, we agree. The Traverse is a very lovable SUV.
#16 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [guy1974]
Nov 23, 2008 (7:48 pm)
guy1974, I'm a participant in www.truedelta.com. If you look closely at their data, you will start to see the American cars moving upward, where foriegn cars are stagnating in quality ratings. (you can find the same movement in Consumer Reports, and other car rating sources.) Also consider this web site is unfortuantely easy to "taint" with bad data. Competition in the car market with owners is feirce, so much so I would not give collections like this one much room for correctness. Just as in any statistic, there is "X% room for error", not sure what the calculated error rate on truedelta is though. Simply, take it with a grain of salt.
#17 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [narg]
Nov 25, 2008 (7:50 am)
Narg - I am totally with you that the domestics (prehaps not including Chrysler) have improved greatly and are comparable to Toyota and Honda in quality. Truedelta does bear out that GM and Ford have improved over time and I have much more confidence in treudelta's data than Consumer Reports which has no numerical values and is 12-18 months out of date. Truedelta will have Traverse data in February '09 whereas the 2009 Lamdbas in CR will not be reported on until end of 09 at the earliest. As a prospective buyer truedelta fits a need and I am interested in the next quarterly update in February 2009. Enjoy your great new Traverse.
Jan 18, 2009 (5:39 am)
We Americans are selling our country. We send a lot of money offshore with most things we buy today. Foreign countries use the money we send them to buy the United States, or loan us money. This all means we are losing our sovereignty and will soon be controlled by the people who own us.
#19 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [narg]
Mar 24, 2009 (12:25 pm)
This post is so full of inaccuracies and plain old fashioned BS that I barely know where to start. How about the beginning:
Let's see. Your first paragraph belittles "Quality Surveys" as nothing more than public opinion based on TV commercials (?). Then, in an attempt to back your claim that domestic manufacturers are building better cars, you reference the most recent survey by saying that Buick (and Jaguar) beats Lexus. So which is it? Are these "Quality Surveys" useful or not? Seems like you're picking your spots.
As for the surveys. They are based on public opinion. The opinions of the people who actually own the cars. Would love to see your data on how these are influenced by TV rather than an owner's actual experience. Do tell. As for those "lies" that Toyota tells. Hate to break it to you Captain America - that's called advertising. What about the Chevy ads with the Transformers? Were you expecting a Cobalt to turn into a robot right off the showroom floor?
Toyota and Honda built great cars in the 80's because they weren't heavy on "features and parts"? What precisely does that mean? Were Corollas made from 6 or 7 moving parts? Maybe it's because they were well built...period...and didn't fall apart like domestics have for so long.
"All cars are basically built the same". Hmm...interesting. So a Lexus LS460h and a Chevy Aveo are basically the same? Didn't think so. The fact is there are still wide variances in the quality and manufacturing processes of all brands of cars, leading to the wide variance in quality among brands.
I won't even begin to try to understand why the "Nader Era" has anything to do with the quality of cars today. I suspect you don't understand it either.
"Today I drive American, cuz I'm an American". Ahh...my favorite topic. Oh Captain, my Captain, I would love to hear your definition of "American". Would it be the Fusion, made in Mexico of 60% foreign parts? Or the Saturn Vue, built entirely in Germany with virtually all foreign parts? Or how about the Chevy pickup built in Canada, or the Aveo built in Korea? Or maybe it's the Camry, built in Kentucky with 70% domestic content, or the Accord built in Ohio with 60% domestic content. Which is it? Honda, Toyota and Hyundai all have research, design and engineering facilities in the US to design and build cars for US consumption. Like any other enterprise, those "profits" you fret about get plowed back in to the business, to fund...wait for it...more research, development and manufacturing. This in turn employs tens of thousands of Americans. Go to Marysville, OH and tell those guys what you think about their jobs and their kids' futures.
My idea of being an American is having freedom of choice rather than being told that I need to buy an American car to be a true American. Your viewpoint sounds like Communism to me. By the way, what do you plan to do with your DVD player made in Japan, your clothes made in Malaysia, your alarm clock made in China or your fruit imported from South America?
So let me get this straight...you have a Chevy that's in good shape, and a family member with a Camry with broken door handles. From this exhaustive scientific research, you have concluded that "Asian quality has tanked." Well done. All of the actual research, surveys, etc., showing otherwise just doesn't stand up to Capt. America!
What this amounts to is misdirected yahoo flag-waving pseudo patriotism. You ignore a key salient point: we are in a global economy. Domestic vs. foreign was easy to quantify 30 years ago, but not so today. Where's your anger at GM and Ford and Chrysler farming out production, parts supplies and engineering to foreign countries?
I will not argue with you on one point: I agree that Ford and GM have made great strides in quality. So much so that after years of import ownership, we are shopping the Flex against the Pilot and Highlander. But stating that "Asian quality has tanked" just because you have a decent 2000 Chevy (you should buy a 2009 Accord to help the US economy) and you believe that Toyota and Honda "lie" (whatever that means) is completely and totally false, and frankly makes you sound like a creepy conspiracy theory-type. Good luck with that DVD player.