Last post on May 07, 2013 at 4:03 PM
You are in the Ford Flex
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Ford Flex, Chevrolet Traverse, Car Comparisons, Wagon, SUV
#5 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Oct 16, 2008 (2:18 pm)
I think your comment was in reference to the 80's and 90's. JD Powers 2008 Initial Quality Study shows Ford and Chevrolet worse than four Asian nameplates but better than nine Asian nameplates. Among the worst of all nameplates is the Toyota Scion. The US manufacturers have definitely arrived on the quality front. Basically, the quality of all the manufacturers is so close now, you have to look at styling, features, performance and most recently fuel economy to make your picks.
#6 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [trucktricks]
Oct 16, 2008 (4:39 pm)
Basically, the quality of all the manufacturers is so close now, you have to look at styling, features, performance and most recently fuel economy to make your picks.
If that were true, then GM and Ford wouldn't be practically going out of business. Initial Quality Surveys are nice, but just sit in any Honda or Toyota and then in a Ford or Chevy and there's a pretty obvious difference in quality, plus the long term quality/reliability of Honda and Toyota is still better.
#7 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Oct 17, 2008 (9:24 am)
The whole quality thing is mostly perception at this point. How many people do you think know that for 2008 Dependability (what you are refering to as long term) the Buick beats the Honda and Toyota in the midsize category? (yes, that is the Accord and Camry) I will answer that question . Very few. The trends are favorable for the domestics. Simply a result of a lot of hard work by the GM and Ford teams. I would not be surprised at all to see Ford and GM both above Honda and Toyota by 2010. And they are close enough now that it is all about styling, features, performance, and fuel economy for those people willing to open their eyes and see what is going on in the car world.
#8 of 27 RESALE VALUE
Oct 26, 2008 (12:49 pm)
Toyota and Honda crush the domestics in resale value. That is where the rubber hits the road.
#9 of 27 Resale value is driven by availability
Nov 03, 2008 (7:36 am)
Since rental places don't rent Toyotas & Hondas, there aren't as many used available. Supply is low, so demand drives the price up. I've driven both a Ford Explorer and most recently a Honda Odyssey. The Odyssey is not noticeably better quality, and has some very annoying qualities. I do a lot of highway driving, and the Odyssey's cruise controls varies the speed so much that it annoys other drivers on the road who keep passing me and then I pass them, etc. The Odyssey has NEVER approached the 26 mpg highway that it promises. My Explorer tended to surpass it's reported gas mileage on the highway. That being said, I enjoyed the utility of my Odyssey, and until Ford came out with the Flex, I hadn't considered going back.
#10 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Nov 11, 2008 (5:56 pm)
Actually what is ailing the American Car companies is there agreements with the Unions over the last 30 years which have made it much more difficult to compete in the world market. Case in point GM is the number one car maker in China, very successful in Brasil and Chevy is the number one car in eastern Europe. GM is producing incredible cars right now and all are receiving the highest in ratings and consumer satisfaction. We own six cars right now with all of the kids cars factored in with only one foreign car, a Honda civic and if I had to get rid of one of them it would be the Honda, compared to the other American cars we have this is without a doubt the worst all around, and the worst car I have ever owned.
#11 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Nov 11, 2008 (6:03 pm)
I saw the Traverse today at the dealership while I was having mu oil changed and it looked way better in person than it does online. The quality inside was incredible, enough so that I had to at least sit in it for a while and look around. It has the same controls as my Avalanche LTZ and seems to have taken a styling que from the Malibu, very nice. I would definantly consider this if I still had all five of my kids at home. If GM keeps putting cars out like this they will easily win the quality and styling wars with Toyota and Honda.
#12 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [bobw3]
Nov 13, 2008 (2:22 pm)
This opinion is directed at all who posted here about so-called Asian quality...
"Quality Surveys" are based on public opinion. Which in turn is based more on TV commercials rather than true reality. TV commercials where Toyota often flat out lies. (anyone recall the "meteor proof" commercial? Tell me that wasn't a lie...)
Bottom line, GM & Ford today build a car as good, and in some cases BETTER than any asian car maker. (Buick has been rating higher than Lexus!!!!) Toyota & Honda earned quality ratings in the 80's when their cars were NOT very heavy on features and parts. SO of course they had higher quality. Now days, all cars are basically built the same. Toyota tries so hard to keep the quality rating by lying to their customers. They have been sued by a few governments (not here in the US yet.... yet...) because they hold back safety recalls on their vehicles rather than doing the right think and protecting the consumer. You have to keep in mind that Toyota and Honda did not have to endure the "Nader Era" where consumerism was bashed into the heads of the Big 3 US automakers. So Toyota and Honda feel they can get away with a lot of things that they Big 3 never even try in advertising and truth about their products. Not that all don't try, but the Asian makers do push the limits far beyond what I feel is acceptable.
Today, to call a US made auto poor in quality just shows pure stupidity. I drove Asian vehicles in the 80's. Today I drive American. Why? First and foremost: Simply because I am American and I love my country. If you find fault in that, then you need to re-examine your priorities... I also drive them because they are less costly and very good in quality. I've proven that to myself, so I can say that with no reservations.
I saw and drove the quality increases through the 90's into today, and it was amazing! My first US made truck was a '92 model, then I bought a '97 and it was increadably better, today I still drive the 2000 truck simply because it's so good. Never had a reason to trade it in (but just want to try something different now... so I'm shopping.) While lately I've seen Asian quality has tanked. For example: A couple months ago, I had to laugh when I walked past a new Camry in a Wal-Mart parking lot where the driver was unable to turn off their alarm after the drive simply starting the car. Poor girl had to drive it home flashing and beeping. Sorry, the "quality" in Toyota is no longer there. Another example is a family member who owns a 2000 Camry, the door handles fell off last year. I have a 2000 year model Chevy that has had zero problems, period. Both of us treat our vehicles with great care, but her's continues to cause more and more issues as it gets older. Her interior is cracking and peeling, mine still looks rather new. Today she's got the Chevy Malibu in mind, and can't wait to get far far away from Toyota on her next vehicle. Of course that's my experience, but more and more often it's becoming the experience of a LOT of people. Asian car quality is no longer the best.
Another thing that bugs me is the "well they're made here" argument. Sure, but building a car is only 1/2 the cost. If you still buy foreign, then you are sending all the profits overseas, and away from the American economy. There is still the cost of engineering and support, all which keep MORE jobs here in the US when we buy US made vehicles. I care about the future US that my kids will live in. Why don't you?
If you really think that perceived "quality" of the lying japanese automakers is worth the reduction in your own country's GDP, I think that a reality check is in order. Both Ford and GM build cars worthy of any consumer's consideration today. Using the excuse of quality is no longer acceptable or realistic. If you find problem with that, don't look at me, I'm not the one with the real problem here... Sure, that's a strong opinion, but I'm sticking to it. No I don't have a Confederate flag in my rear window, so don't stereotype. You'll only fail.
Now as far as the Flex vs. Traverse? I think the reviewer was tilted only toward what he thought was good looking. Feature wize, I kinda like the Flex (I LOVE the Microsoft controlled electronics that Ford has in their vehicles today. Absolutely love it!) But, ride comfort and usability for me win out hands down. With that and I just think the Traverse looks better, so I disagree with the video reviewer's opinion. I actually think the Buick version of this SUV looks the best, but I can't get a feature set in the price range I want on the Buick, so I'm heavily considering the Traverse. And, I'll buy one with a piece of mind that I bought a very high quality vehicle that will last as long as I need it to, and that my money was properly spent on things that matter, more than percieved opinion shaped by over-commercialization and incorrect statements.
#13 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [narg]
Nov 13, 2008 (6:23 pm)
Have you forgotten that Ford, Chevy, and Dodge sell their vehicles overseas? In fact if it wasn't for their overseas markets they would be more in debt and probably out of business. So when the people of other countries buy American vehicles they are sending money overseas also to America. American car companies don't make enough money to pay all their employees without selling cars overseas. So the people who buy American vehicles in other countries are helping to keep people in America employed. If you think we should not buy foreign cars then maybe we shouldn't buy their oil also. Then the oil companies can charge $12 a gallon and we can ride around in 30 gallon American made SUVs. Don't forget how telephone service was when there was only AT&T. Competition can sometimes make things better. Although I do think American quality has gotten better (I love the Traverse) it basically boils down to personal choice. Even though we see things differently, just buying American is not the answer.
#14 of 27 Re: Article Comments - 2009 Chevy Traverse LT2 vs. 2009 Ford Flex Limited [narg]
Nov 18, 2008 (12:07 pm)
I have also looked at the Traverse and think it is a good looking large CUV. Similar to the Buick in some details. The GMC Acadia is the more traditional SUV styling and looks handsome.
My wife and I looked at a Honda Pilot and a Chevy Traverse and my wife who usually favors imports thought the interior design and quality was better in the Chevy.
one thing though Narg - I would resist quoting anecdotes because someone else will have a story where the import was better than the domestic. I would recommend going to www.truedelta.com which rates reliability using statistics rather than anecdotes.