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Hatchbacks Mazda3 2010 Mazda3
653 messages, Last post on Nov 12, 2009 at 2:07 PM
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Replying to: backy (Jun 09, 2009 3:01 pm) Relative to its current, direct competition (Rabbit, Jetta, Lancer GTS, maybe Impreza), its fuel economy is tops with the automatic transmission; power is down a little but it appears that performance is on par. Is that a big deal? Only if you wish to make it one. I don't. I see it as a point of discussion, nothing more. That's the whole point; we're having a discussion. It's not a big deal. I just think that you're failing or refusing to see the Mazda 3s for what it is. It may be in the same weight/size class as the Corolla, but they're meant for completely different types of buyers. For its intended buyer (the one who might consider the Rabbit or Lancer GTS), it's economy is about class-leading and its performance is on par. Anyway, I don't see why fuel economy gains must come at the expense of sportiness. I mean, is there something that says a great-handling car cannot also have best-in-class fuel economy? Handling and vehicle dynamics do not come at the expense of fuel economy. (This is not entirely true, tires that maximise handling will lead to slightly lower fuel economy, maybe 1 mpg......low rolling resistance tires maximise economy at the expense of handling.) But "responsiveness" of the engine and the car overall comes at the expense of fuel economy. All things being equal, a car that is geared for the engine to remain in the "sweet spot" of power/torque will be more "responsive" and hence sportier, and less economical, than one that is geared to keep the engine revving as lowly as possible (thus saving as much fuel as possible while often not being in the sweet spot). Because of the zoom-zoom strategy, the Mazda 3 has sweet spot type gearing. That is why the Mazda 3i is still 1 or 2 mpg down compared to the Focus, and that's partly why it is sportier than the Focus. The Corolla and the Civic, like the Focus, are also geared for maximum economy. The Mazda 3s and its direct competitors all have sweet spot type gearing.
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Jun 09, 2009 8:27 pm) I see the Mazda3s for what it is. You however are failing or refusing to acknowledge that other cars in the same class have leap-frogged the new Mazda3s in some areas, specifically the combination of power with fuel economy. Whether it's important or not is in the eyes of the car buyer. Because of the zoom-zoom strategy, the Mazda 3 has sweet spot type gearing. There is a simple solution to providing both "sweet spot", sport-oriented gearing and gearing for optimal fuel economy. Check out the Jetta and Rabbit, for example. They offer a 6-speed Tiptronic automatic with Normal and Sport modes. You want sport-oriented gearing? Flick the shifter into "S", or flick it into manumatic mode and shift for yourself. You want optimal fuel economy? Use Normal shift mode. Still plenty of responsiveness with the 170 hp engine for most situations, but lets you squeeze out a few more miles per tank. Or for stick shifts, provide a 6-speed box with true overdrive in 6th (and maybe 5th).
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Replying to: backy (Jun 10, 2009 7:04 am) Good! Looks like I'm making some progress!  You however are failing or refusing to acknowledge that other cars in the same class have leap-frogged the new Mazda3s in some areas, specifically the combination of power with fuel economy......There is a simple solution to providing both "sweet spot", sport-oriented gearing and gearing for optimal fuel economy. Check out the Jetta and Rabbit, for example. Let's check the power and fuel economy of the Rabbit and Mazda 3s. Mazda 3s: Manual 21/29, Automatic 22/29 Power/Torque 167/168 (from mazdausa.com) 0 to 60 mph 8.1 s Quarter Mile 16.0  86.3 (from Edmunds) VW Rabbit: Manual 21/30 Automatic 20/29 Power/Torque 170/177 (from vw.com) 0 to 60 mph 8 s (from vw.com) From the figures, the fuel economy is a wash between the Rabbit and the Mazda 3s, and performance (acceleration) is too! Where is the "squeeze out a few more miles per tank" you're talking about? I asked Karl on his blog about his opinions, and he felt the Mazda was slightly sportier while the VW was slightly more luxurious and felt more "substantial". His Mazda 3 comments were in reference to the previous-gen Mazda 3. Based on the facts/figures and the driving impressions (from Edmunds' chief editor, Karl), it is obvious that the Rabbit (and any of its direct competitors) haven't "leap-frogged the new Mazda3s" in any areas! [The Rabbit has considerably more torque, but that hasn't resulted in more performance or torque.....the Mazda 3s has some features the Rabbit lacks, eg, dual-zone A/C and adaptive headlights!] BTW, the Mazda 3s also has a 6-spd manual and an automatic with manual-shift mode just like the Rabbit!......  So, you are the one who is refusing to see that the Mazda 3s is not behind its direct competition in any way!
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Jun 10, 2009 8:23 am) I was not aware the Mazda3 has a tri-mode (sport/normal/manumatic) 6-speed automatic transmission available. My mistake! As for leap-frogging, the Jetta/Rabbit wasn't the car I was thinking of. Although I do prefer the Jetta/Rabbit in some areas compared to the Mazda3, including ride comfort, interior quality, AT flexibility, and (especially) front-end styling. Anyway, you are forgetting about some of the "direct competition" here. Just because you don't consider some cars competition for the Mazda3 doesn't mean others cannot, for example: http://www.canadiandriver.com/2009/05/19/first-drive-2010-kia-forte.htm
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Replying to: backy (Jun 10, 2009 8:33 am) The Mazda 3s' automatic is actually a 5-spd. It has just normal and manumatic modes......although it has "adaptive shift logic" that is able to determine (from pressure on the gas, for example) whether you wanna drive sporty or not and shift itself accordingly. Actually, no multi-mode auto transmission that I know of actually changes gear ratios (except perhaps in expensive cars like the 7-series or S-Class). In affordable cars like the Mazda 3 and the Rabbit, the sport/normal mode simply changes the shift points......so, for example, in normal mode, it will change from 3rd to 4th at 2500 rpm in normal mode and 4000 rpm in sport mode. Oh, the Rabbit 4-door is sold only in automatic! That sucks.........if you want the manual, you have to stick to the 2-door!  Well, luckily, I prefer the Mazda 3....
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Jun 10, 2009 8:44 am) But I went for the 6AT, for three reasons: 1) I got tired of DW and kids ruining clutches, 2) traffic is getting terrible in my city and driving in rush hour (when I normally drive) with a stick is no longer any fun at all, and 3) the RPMs are 2100 at 70 mph--very quiet, relaxed cruising on the highway.
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Replying to: backy (Jun 10, 2009 8:56 am) My Protege5 (5-spd manual) does 3,300 rpm at 70 mph! The engine noise is actually nice at that speed (I'm not a quiet car kinda person).....I love it on smooth roads and interstates.....it's the road/tire noise on not-so-smooth roads that gets tiring on long trips, LOL!
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Replying to: blackadder5639 (Jun 10, 2009 10:16 am) The 6th gear in the auto is an extra overdrive gear. This is essentially the gear that is missing from VW's 5 speed manual, so that is something you lose by taking the 5 speed manual in the case of the Jetta. As for passing, the auto is very smooth shifting and will quickly drop down when you step on it, there is also the option to down shift manually, by flipping over to tiptronic mode, in advance of a passing maneuver. The only minor gripe I have with the auto is I don't understand why they locked out 6th in sport mode...not a big deal since we pretty much just leave it in normal mode. Mazda is about the same, at least in the case of my version of the 6. My 4th gear in the 5 speed auto is nearly the same as 5th gear in the manual. |
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Replying to: mz6greyghost (Jun 09, 2009 10:21 am) I am looking to buy a 2010 mazda3 (i touring). I will probably not have enough time to test drive the vehicle before i buy it (or atleast untill the day i plan to buy it). I just really need to know... Does the vehicle move?? For example, if im driving on the highway and traffic is moving at about 75mph slightly up hill and i want to pass someone, will i be able to easily?? Thank you.
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Replying to: autonomous (Jun 09, 2009 2:23 pm) "Mazda also tried to improve performance and fuel efficiency by taking out weight. In key areas, Mazda swapped regular steel for more expensive and stronger high-tensile steel. So the structure is stronger and more rigid, yet less weighty. Still, the Mazda3 is heavier than a Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic, comparably equipped. Thus, fuel economy - 8.1 litres/100 km city/5.9 highway, using regular gas - is okay, but not outstanding. " The article generally praises the Mazda3 and concludes with the following: "That and good quality, solid safety scores and competitive pricing mean Honda cannot ignore the Mazda3 - not if Honda wants the Civic to own the top sales spot." In other words, the Mazda3 is a contender but has to work on issues like fuel economy to be the leader.
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