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Future Vehicles Article Comments - 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT First Drive
61 messages, Last post on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:28 AM
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2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT First Drive - First Impressions: Not since the NSX has Acura had such a focused tool poised to shatter expensive glass ceilings. Problem is, the other guys have significantly upgraded models in the pipeline, too. (more)
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Replying to: carlmeadows (Sep 27, 2008 1:59 am) Actually I've seen a bunch of TLSs out at HPDE Track days. As an instructor I get to see all kinds of cars at the track. I instructed a student in a TLS a few years ago at Watkins Glen. Lots of G35s G37s as well. -mike Motorsports and Modifications Host |
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Replying to: habitat1 (Sep 30, 2008 6:12 pm) Wow, how many road races have you done? I am actually a race car driver and my first season I road raced an AUTOMATIC, that's right! So I guess I'm not a competitor! With that said, I do prefer a MT or sequential gear box, and applaud Acura for putting this together. But to discount an automatic or an automatic driver is a bit over zealous. -mike Motorsports and Modifications Host
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As a road racer, I can see through this "comparison".. The #1 thing one can do to improve their cornering and lap times on track is to put on a wider, stickier set of tires. This has been known to drop lap times by significant digits. They even admit in the article that the tires were a major driving force in the handling. So if they were to swap around tires on these cars, my guess is that the results might be different.... -mike Motorsports and Modifications Host |
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Replying to: vasqo (Oct 06, 2008 8:51 am) Before you complain about others' "biases", perhaps you get your own rear into a TL-AWD before you proclaim "it far from any real sports car" and compare it to econoboxes from Kia? You seem to have a chip on your shoulder that the G35 doensn't fare better in comparison tests. Personally, as a previous long time fan of Nissan, I wanted to be impressed with the G35 when I test drove one in 2004. But it was decidingly unimpressive, at least to me. The handling, steering, braking were all 2-3 notches down from the 330i (ZHP). The gearbox felt rubbery. The engine became rough as it approached redline, compared to its competitors. I ended up getting a TL 6-speed, opting to obviously give up some performance because I needed more room than the 3 series offered. But in actuality, the G35 was a non-contender. Nominally better handling than the TL, but very rough around the edges and certainly not the overall performance of the 330i. Infiniti has improved the G35 since 2004, but based upon my several test drives I never would have considered it a serious threat to BMW's driving dynamics. I thought the magazines were "biased" back then to give it as much credit as they did - seemed like wishful thinking more than reality. I'll reserve my judgement on the TL - AWD until I test drive one myself. And I have my concerns about the curb weight and front weight bias. I will also reconsider teh G35/G37 when it comes time. But frankly, I think if there has been any bias, it has been to giving more credit to the G35 than it's due.
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Replying to: paisan (Oct 06, 2008 6:00 pm) I once had a business associate who raced an automatic turbo-diesel pick up truck. He was a hell of a good driver/competitor, but that doesn't make his vehicle a sports car. They might have synchonized swimming and ribbon dancing as "events" in the Olymics, but they are not sports. At least not in my book.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 07, 2008 5:57 am) So how is it not a "SPORT" in your book? -mike Motorsports and Modifications Host
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Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 07, 2008 5:46 am) no chips here, just being objective and fare! Most importantly if you are an enthusiast you'd know there is no comparison between G35 and TL AWD! That is the main topic. Thats the case I am arguing. G35 vs 330i is whole other issue The handling, steering, braking were all 2-3 notches down from the 330i (ZHP). The gearbox felt rubbery. The engine became rough as it approached redline, compared to its competitors. 2-3 notches? what system are you grading on? Actually the 6 speed G35s came with an LSD - an integral part of any RACE car, something BMW lacked. G35 had more HP and handling to boot. It managed better slalom speeds the 330 sport, better stopping distance, acceleration, etc. To be fair to both cars, tires play a major role here so saying one is better than the other is subjective. BMW were quick to introduce the 335 to close/bridge the gap, though at a much higher cost. TL is a very nice vehicle and I will not take anything away from it! So is the case with the new G35 sedans(soon to be G37) What I have an issue with are tests by the manufacturer that are passed around as be all-end all...
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Replying to: vasqo (Oct 08, 2008 12:23 pm) Excuse me? Why not? Hell, if you look back at a couple of independent reviews by Car and Driver and Road and Track, the 2004 TL 6-speed, with its stiffer suspension, Brembo Brakes (and summer rated W series tires) had better slalom times than the G35 sedan, FWD vs. RWD notwithstanding. From what I have read and heard from one trustworthy source that's driven it, the TL-AWD is not only a legitimate competitor to the G35, but potentially a significantly superior one - if you can stomach an automatic until the 6-speed manual version comes out. Personally, I think Infiniti has been in the milking business lately and too slow to step up the G35 to continue tp compete in sport sedan class. The G37 coupe has benefited from more power and some additional refinements. If a little more competiton from Acura and BMW force Infiniti to pony up on the sedan, good for everybody. And I'll be more than happy to test drive a G37 sedan when the time comes. |
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Replying to: paisan (Oct 07, 2008 6:53 pm) I didn't say the road race competitions weren't "sports". I said that slushbox automatic transmissioned sedans and turbo-diesel pick up trucks are not SPORTS CARS, even if the driver behind the wheel happens to win the race. Hopefully, you weren't asking why I don't consider an Olympic event like ribbon dancing a "sport". Please. I've had to bite my tongue for the past two years while a buddy of mine brags about his daughter's sports accomplishments. Track and field? Soccer? Basketball? Gymnastics? No, no, no and no. She is on her college cheerleading squad - and doesn't "play" a particularly challenging "position". He'll talk about how she had a "good game" as though she was filling in for the quarterback. Which, is absolutely fine. But, IMO, it still isn't a sport and she certainly isn't an athlete. But let's let the forum decide: sport, or not? Ribbon Dancing |
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I guess I'm in the pot stirring mood today, because I also want to offer a counterpoint on the notion that tires make a huge difference in the handling and performance of a sport sedan or sports car. I would agree that really poor tires vs. really good ones will make a difference on that car......but big wheels and the best low profile tires in the world will not turn a Lexus into a BMW. To which, I offer the following observations: Lexus GS400 - when it first came out in the late 1990's, they offered an upgraded 17" wheel and high performance tire option. Friend of mine bought one. At 7,500 miles the tires were shot - the diagnosis was that excessive body roll on the poorly engineered suspension had caused the edges to wear and the centers to cup. Lexus had so many complaints that he and about 2,000 other buyers got the option of turning in their 17" for 16" and higher profile tires. He turned the car in, instead, and got a BMW 540i 6-speed with even lower profile tires that lasted well over 20,000 miles a set, thanks to a proper suspension. Honda S2000 - At the time it came out in 2000, on measily 16" wheels and 205/225 width tires, was the only car under $80,000 to exceed 70 mph in a slalom test by one of the major car mags. That car still represents perhaps the best handling, go-cart like sports cars to ever come out of Japan, in spite of the field of contenders that think 18/19" wheels will do the trick (e.g. 350Z, which couldn't even muster 65 mph). A Ferrari 308 sat on 15" wheels and a 328 sat on 16" wheels. Early versions of the BMW M3 sat on 15/16" wheels and would run circles around 90% of the 18"/19"+ wannabes today. I am not discounting the importance of wheels and tires to making an overall package as good as it can be. But chassis and suspension engineering, dynamic weight balance, and a whole lot of other factors go into achieving excellent handling - and slapping some Pirelli P-Zeross won't make up for a failure in those departments.
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