Article Comments - 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT First Drive

61 messages, Last post on Nov 18, 2008 at 11:28 AM

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2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT First Drive - First Impressions: Not since the NSX has Acura had such a focused tool poised to shatter expensive glass ceilings. Problem is, the other guys have significantly upgraded models in the pipeline, too. (more)

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#52 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [paisan] by habitat1 Oct 11, 2008 (4:59 am)
Replying to: paisan (Oct 10, 2008 7:58 pm) Second of all, let's take things a step further. What is your stand on Traction control, ABS, Power Brakes, Power Steering, Power Windows, Power Door Locks, Electronically Controlled LSDs, Electronically controlled Shocks, Sequential Gearboxes, ECUs (of any kind), Synchros in your Manual Gear Box... That's the same "step further" that I've heard over at the "future of the manual transmission" forum. The argument being that we've already succumbed to so many conveniences, we might as well slide all the way down that slippery slope and hand the shifting over to a computer chip. I don't buy it. In driving a sports car or sports sedan, you basically control 4 things: accelerating, braking, steering and shifting gears. If you don't see the difference between power door locks and a slushbox automatic, you are beyond help. But even in the case of power steering, ABS brakes and traction control, they don't take away the fundamental responsibility of the driver to do the 4 things above. And in many true sports cars there is a switch to turn many of those interferences off. High end SMG's of the F1 type are a valiant attempt to split the baby. You contol the shifting with your thumbs, but don't have the inconvenience of having to use your left foot to contorl a clutch. I've heard the arguments in their favor based upon Ferrari and others going to them in Formula 1. But when's the last time you drove a race car capable of 3.5 g's in the corners, even with "double-R" compound tires?? Having both hands on the wheel in that situation is a bit different than most humans will ever experience - or even Neaderthals bumping and ginding through a counterclockwise NASCAR oval. And, for the record, Schumacher's favorite personal car, at least as of last year, was still a 6-speed manual 430. If you think I'm pig headed on this, you should have seen me with the new house we just finished building. Frank Lloyd Wright Prairie style design. Real stone, not veneer. Real stucco, not Hardi or EIFS. Real Pennsylvania cherry, not painted pine. It may have cost a couple of more arms and legs than some half baked "arts and crafts" (i.e. "farts and craps") McMansion wannabe, but it was worth it, at least to us. It's the "real deal". The good news is that a "real" sports car doesn't cost any more than the slushbox automatic wannabe version. In some cases, a lot less than the SMG version ($10k in the case of a 430). And some (S2000, GT3, etc.) don't even tempt the wannabe buyer with anything but the real deal. That's it. This all started when I expressed approval of Acura offering a manual transmission in the TL while Infiniti doesn't in the G35x and Nissan tries to market the CVT only Maxima as a "four door sports car". I think I've said all I can - and probably more than I should have. Replies to this message: paisan (Oct 11, 2008 8:54 pm) circlew (Oct 12, 2008 12:16 pm) habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:31 pm) and 1 more... habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:23 pm) paisan (Oct 12, 2008 3:36 pm)
#53 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [paisan] by pat HOST Oct 11, 2008 (5:58 am)
Replying to: paisan (Oct 10, 2008 7:58 pm) Maybe you could help us get back on topic?
#54 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [habitat1] by paisan Oct 11, 2008 (8:54 pm)
Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 11, 2008 4:59 am) I don't buy it. In driving a sports car or sports sedan, you basically control 4 things: accelerating, braking, steering and shifting gears. So then you concede that since you can control the shifting of gears with today's manumatics, that they are indeed sports cars. I'm glad we agree. Also on a side note, all this time I have been playing devil's advocate on this as I am also an MT Fan. I currently drive an 05 Legacy GT Wagon 5MT (Quite a rare car in an MT) and I am looking to purchase an 09 G8, but am going to probably wait til the GXP version comes out for the sole reason that it's the only variant available in an MT option. Unfortuantely folks like us who buy MT sports sedans are few and far between and as our numbers shrink we will be forced to get an AT of some kind or another. Back on topic, if the RL AWD 6MT were cheaper it would be on my list of cars to drive in my upcoming shopping for a car, but it's likely outside my price range -mike Motorsports and Modifications Host Replies to this message: circlew (Oct 12, 2008 12:16 pm) habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:31 pm) laurasdada (Oct 12, 2008 7:33 pm) habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:23 pm) paisan (Oct 12, 2008 3:36 pm)
#55 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [paisan] by circlew Oct 12, 2008 (12:16 pm)
Replying to: paisan (Oct 11, 2008 8:54 pm) Three pedals are so unbalanced...2 feet, three pedals! Regards, OW Replies to this message: habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:31 pm) laurasdada (Oct 12, 2008 7:33 pm)
#56 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [paisan] by habitat1 Oct 12, 2008 (3:23 pm)
Replying to: paisan (Oct 11, 2008 8:54 pm) So then you concede that since you can control the shifting of gears with today's manumatics, that they are indeed sports cars. I'm glad we agree. Nice try. Even in some of the best "manumatics" like BMW's steptronic or AMG's automatic, there is way too much slush in that slushbox to make the flipping of the gearshif left or right anything more than an absurd exercise in futility. The last loaner I had was an Audi that I tried "manually shifting" just for the fun of it. I could get a sip or two out of my coffee in the delay before the shift actually happened. High end SMG's are much better in the speed of the shifts, but still don't have that direct feel and ability to feather the clutch or do all those other things that I'm sure make you a fan, albeit devil advocating one, of the real deal. Did you mean TL SH-AWD 6 speed? I haven't heard of a RL 6-speed manual. Replies to this message: paisan (Oct 12, 2008 3:36 pm)
#57 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [circlew] by habitat1 Oct 12, 2008 (3:31 pm)
Replying to: circlew (Oct 12, 2008 12:16 pm) 2 feet, three pedals! That's safer than 2 and 2 when I'm driving. Seems like about 50% of the time I'm driving a rental automatic, at some point I forget and try to depress the clutch as I am coasting to a stop - and hit the brake instead. Fortunately, I've only accidentally shifted an automatic from drive into reverse once (after a long red-eye trip) and the statute of limitations has expired on that adventure. Replies to this message: laurasdada (Oct 12, 2008 7:33 pm)
#58 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [habitat1] by paisan Oct 12, 2008 (3:36 pm)
Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:23 pm) Did you mean TL SH-AWD 6 speed? I haven't heard of a RL 6-speed manual. Yup meant TL. Just got back from doing a clutch install for a customer at our shop into their stage 2+ Legacy GT. That was a fun adventure in wrenching....14 hrs later.... -mike Motorsports and Modifications Host
#59 of 61 Re: Tires - Counterpoint [habitat1] by laurasdada Oct 12, 2008 (7:33 pm)
Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 12, 2008 3:31 pm) "...at some point I forget and try to depress the clutch as I am coasting to a stop - and hit the brake instead." That's funny as, after driving sticks for the first 15 years of my driving life, I would do the same thing in the company-supplied slush-puppies I drove for the next 5 years! Or, when looking for the missing third pedal, I would simply stomp my foot into the firewall carpeting... ouch.
#60 of 61 2010 TL by wwest Nov 18, 2008 (11:28 am)
Change the rear ring/pinion ratio ("overdrive" the rear) so that 70-80% of the engine torque can go to the rear during HARD acceleration, or the MAJORITY of engine compression braking effects when downshifting, and throw in a new DFI engine with 12.8:1 compression ratio and I'm "in".