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Automotive News & Views The Rebirth of Buick.........
418 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 3:57 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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"The Audi number for the A6 for 2008 are different from what was posted: A6 FWD is 18/27 A6 AWD V8 is 16/23 Still better than the Lucerne. But for 2009 the Lucerne with the V6 is 17/26." A factor to consider when comparing fuel economy is that Audis run on premium while Buicks take regular. |
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Replying to: jwbrothers (Sep 27, 2008 11:19 pm) Thanks for posting. I'm really glad to see this thread getting attention. The problem with your post though is not your opinion, but where GM has put Buick right now. You show the A6 AWD as 350 hp, and Buick's V-8 (a northstar V8, I believe) as 292 hp. The reason this was done was so that the Lucerne wouldn't infringe on Cadillac, in which the same engine puts out 320 hp in the FAR more expensive STS. You said it best, it makes an excellent executive sedan. At this point however, GM hasn't set Buick up to compete in a luxury performance arena (we can only hope).
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Sep 28, 2008 3:52 pm) No, the Buick is certainly not on par with luxury. You put it next to a new Acura TL, CTS, or even an Accord, that is very entry level, but up there, and it still falls short.I am not sure why anyone would pick any Buick, when frankly there are so many cars out there that are more better looking, fun, more bang for the buck. Even on a CTS, though fun, not sure I would want to overpay on that car either, when it is still made by GM, and many other cars that are less in cost, and offer more fun. I almost feel they didn't want to push it too far with their Buick line up, as they would be taking away from the other "million" cars they have on the road. The Buick now, feels like a basic rental. Like a nice hotel, but certainly not a suite. Sounds like I am bashing the GM name, but honestly, there are only a few cars in their line up that impress me, but even then, I am not sure I could get myself to buy the car. Ironic enough, I have an 08 Pontiac G6, Loaded, Not by choice, but I am getting new liking to the GM name, they did put some thought into it. But, I will be back to the Honda, from which I came from. |
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Replying to: tlong (Sep 27, 2008 8:59 pm) But isn't the much more fundamental problem that they shouldn't have 5 makes in the first place? I think 5 brands of the same platform could work quite well - but not the way GM has been trying to do it. If you are going to make multiple cars on the same platform, they should be designed to fill a particular niche as well as the platform can be adapted for it, rather than having 5 cars targeted towards the mainstream that are primarily differentiated by cosmetics (or in the worst cases, badges). Chevrolet is obviously GM's 'mainstream' brand - as such, it is fine to have a car that offers a lot of compromises in terms of performance in order to compare well in terms of price, appearance and utility to the other mainstream vehicles. The Malibu does this well, in my opinion. But so does the Saturn Aura - I don't see any real difference between these cars other than cosmetics. The current Lacrosse strikes me as targeting the same market, but with a bit of marketing towards 'near luxury'. The G6 is more of the same, with an attempt to make the styling 'sporty'. This is where GM fails - the Aura, Lacrosse, and G6 should not be viewed as the same car (yes, I am aware that the current Lacrosse is a different platform, but it is my understanding that the next generation will share its underpinnings with the others). If GM wants Pontiac to be the performance division, they need to make the decision and commit to making the G6 into a car that can at least outperform the Mazda6, Accord, and Altima - if it gives up something in terms of 'civility', so be it - the market that should be targeted are those who are willing to give that up for performance. Buick is in a more difficult position. GM wants it to be 'near luxury', but this is a shrinking market segment as the 'lower' brands have been inching closer and closer to the 'higher' brands in terms of comfort. This really makes 'near luxury' into low-priced luxury. For GM to nail this, they need to make the Lacrosse a genuine competitor to cars like the Lexus ES, not the Camry. This is a problem though, as Lexus has a much higher limit and can use the prestige factor to move the lower end cars - Buick can't do this without becoming Cadillac. Either Caddy has to move even further upmarket or Buick needs to find a new niche. I stated earlier that Buick holds no appeal to me - hopefully GM realizes this and does something specific in response - that is, understand that Buick will not and should not appeal to everyone. It's ok that I don't have any desire to even look at a Buick. I'm 28 years old and more interested in performance than comfort, so I should be in Pontiac's market segment anyway. However, GM has some serious problems in its brands that I don't see a solution to in the near future. They have brands that they claim are targeted towards various segments, but they don't make them fit those segments. If they can't field a G6 that someone in my position would seriously consider, I don't see a future for Pontiac.
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Sep 28, 2008 3:52 pm)
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Replying to: sls002 (Sep 29, 2008 7:42 am) I am with stovebolter, there isn't anything sporty about the Pontiacs, except for the Solstice. By the same token, there isn't enough upscale in the Buick line to distinguish it from all the other brands at the General, not to mention Mercury. I could possibly see the future of Buick as a sort of "80% of Cadillac" brand, but then it has to share platforms and engines with Cadillac. They can be one step down for each respective model, but they can't be so similar to the lesser cars at Chevy and Saturn. Certainly, if what I believe will happen DOES happen, and the future of Buick is as the North American outlet for GM China's products, we won't see it fulfilling that "80% of Cadillac" role.
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Replying to: stovebolter (Sep 28, 2008 7:00 pm) Can anybody talking about the fit/finish flaws actually name a specific item on a brand new one that they test drove with possible intention to buy or is this the same old same old that no longer applies? My '84 Camaro had 10 fit/finish issues. My '01 Chev had maybe 3. The trend is towards zero. So GM makes a few good nameplates, like about 20, and Honda makes more? The CRV from my neighborhood has vibrating tinny noises that sound like all the other 150k plus mile Hondas I've rode in. The sound of falling apart drivetrains. |
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Replying to: nippononly (Sep 29, 2008 11:52 am) What I see as GM future is bankruptcy followed by reoranization with only Chevy/Cadillac as the makes/models that survive.
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Replying to: sls002 (Sep 30, 2008 7:08 am) Agreed. Then, they can stop competing within themselves. Makes perfect sense for a new business model...oh, and kill the UAW as well. Regards, OW
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Replying to: sls002 (Sep 30, 2008 7:08 am) Agreed but I think you can add Pontiac to that mix. Perfect opportunity to use Pontiac to continue the "mission" of Saturn. Pontiac can be the European division with a flair. Keep Buick strictly for international sales since it is doing so well in China. Besides not competing against itself, GM can't afford to support all these different divisions. |
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