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Automotive News & Views The Rebirth of Buick.........
421 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 3:10 PM
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Replying to: jwbrothers (Sep 27, 2008 11:19 pm) Repair and service costs are also significantly more than an Audi. I'd have to take the A6 to an Audi specialist whereas the guy on the corner could service and repair a Lucerne. Those fuel economy figures seem off for the Lucerne V-6. I do much better than that in my 1988 Park Avenue and slightly better with my V-8 Cadillac DTS Performance.
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Replying to: lemko (Sep 28, 2008 8:40 am) Lemko, that 16/25 rating for the Lucerne V-6 is for a 2008 3.8 model, and using the newer, dumbed-down EPA ratings. Using the older rating system, the Lucerne was something like 19/28. I think your Park Ave would be 19/29. As for comparing Audi to Buick, it's really a hard comparison to do directly. If you were go compare just on size, Buick doesn't even make anything as small as an A6. It's sized more like a Malibu or Aura. Yet a base A6 starts around $42K, which would probably get you the nicest Lucerne ever built. To get something Lucerne sized, you need to look to the A8. And even that's not quite cutting it...you have to move to the A8L (extended wheelbase), and at that point you're probably looking at $75K or more. Now granted, an A8 is a heckuva lot nicer car than a Buick Lucerne. At that price it better be!
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Replying to: tlong (Sep 27, 2008 8:59 pm) Cadillac as the luxury division. This would still leave at least three different platforms, but GM has about 8 car platforms in production for the North American market, and there are additional platforms outside of North America. World wide I can see needing a small car platform, a midsized and a big car. Each platform should allow for more than one size. At a minimum then, there should be about 6 sizes of cars possible from three platforms, and I think 8 sizes is likely. One can then spread the 8 sizes out in 5 different makes in a way that makes each make different. Since GM is trying to reduce dealers to two basic groups (Chevy/Cadillac and Buick/Pontiac/GMC) the need to duplicate platforms for each make is greatly reduced. At one time the Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Chevrolet dealers all wanted compact, midsize and full sized cars. |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Sep 28, 2008 9:03 am) A6 FWD is 18/27 A6 AWD V8 is 16/23 Still better than the Lucerne. But for 2009 the Lucerne with the V6 is 17/26. The V8 for the Lucerne is limited to the Super model I think. The new (for the Lucerne) V6 has more power, with up to 227 HP optional in some areas. |
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Replying to: jwbrothers (Sep 27, 2008 11:19 pm)  I think when Buick was making the T-type models, they were better handling. Audi is considered by the car magazines to have the best interiors in general. I would put Audi in the same category as Mercedes, BMW and other luxury cars. Buick is what I would call a medium priced brand, more like the Chrysler and Mercury, maybe Toyota Avalon, and now the Genesis. |
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"The Audi number for the A6 for 2008 are different from what was posted: A6 FWD is 18/27 A6 AWD V8 is 16/23 Still better than the Lucerne. But for 2009 the Lucerne with the V6 is 17/26." A factor to consider when comparing fuel economy is that Audis run on premium while Buicks take regular. |
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Replying to: jwbrothers (Sep 27, 2008 11:19 pm) Thanks for posting. I'm really glad to see this thread getting attention. The problem with your post though is not your opinion, but where GM has put Buick right now. You show the A6 AWD as 350 hp, and Buick's V-8 (a northstar V8, I believe) as 292 hp. The reason this was done was so that the Lucerne wouldn't infringe on Cadillac, in which the same engine puts out 320 hp in the FAR more expensive STS. You said it best, it makes an excellent executive sedan. At this point however, GM hasn't set Buick up to compete in a luxury performance arena (we can only hope).
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Sep 28, 2008 3:52 pm) No, the Buick is certainly not on par with luxury. You put it next to a new Acura TL, CTS, or even an Accord, that is very entry level, but up there, and it still falls short.I am not sure why anyone would pick any Buick, when frankly there are so many cars out there that are more better looking, fun, more bang for the buck. Even on a CTS, though fun, not sure I would want to overpay on that car either, when it is still made by GM, and many other cars that are less in cost, and offer more fun. I almost feel they didn't want to push it too far with their Buick line up, as they would be taking away from the other "million" cars they have on the road. The Buick now, feels like a basic rental. Like a nice hotel, but certainly not a suite. Sounds like I am bashing the GM name, but honestly, there are only a few cars in their line up that impress me, but even then, I am not sure I could get myself to buy the car. Ironic enough, I have an 08 Pontiac G6, Loaded, Not by choice, but I am getting new liking to the GM name, they did put some thought into it. But, I will be back to the Honda, from which I came from. |
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Replying to: tlong (Sep 27, 2008 8:59 pm) But isn't the much more fundamental problem that they shouldn't have 5 makes in the first place? I think 5 brands of the same platform could work quite well - but not the way GM has been trying to do it. If you are going to make multiple cars on the same platform, they should be designed to fill a particular niche as well as the platform can be adapted for it, rather than having 5 cars targeted towards the mainstream that are primarily differentiated by cosmetics (or in the worst cases, badges). Chevrolet is obviously GM's 'mainstream' brand - as such, it is fine to have a car that offers a lot of compromises in terms of performance in order to compare well in terms of price, appearance and utility to the other mainstream vehicles. The Malibu does this well, in my opinion. But so does the Saturn Aura - I don't see any real difference between these cars other than cosmetics. The current Lacrosse strikes me as targeting the same market, but with a bit of marketing towards 'near luxury'. The G6 is more of the same, with an attempt to make the styling 'sporty'. This is where GM fails - the Aura, Lacrosse, and G6 should not be viewed as the same car (yes, I am aware that the current Lacrosse is a different platform, but it is my understanding that the next generation will share its underpinnings with the others). If GM wants Pontiac to be the performance division, they need to make the decision and commit to making the G6 into a car that can at least outperform the Mazda6, Accord, and Altima - if it gives up something in terms of 'civility', so be it - the market that should be targeted are those who are willing to give that up for performance. Buick is in a more difficult position. GM wants it to be 'near luxury', but this is a shrinking market segment as the 'lower' brands have been inching closer and closer to the 'higher' brands in terms of comfort. This really makes 'near luxury' into low-priced luxury. For GM to nail this, they need to make the Lacrosse a genuine competitor to cars like the Lexus ES, not the Camry. This is a problem though, as Lexus has a much higher limit and can use the prestige factor to move the lower end cars - Buick can't do this without becoming Cadillac. Either Caddy has to move even further upmarket or Buick needs to find a new niche. I stated earlier that Buick holds no appeal to me - hopefully GM realizes this and does something specific in response - that is, understand that Buick will not and should not appeal to everyone. It's ok that I don't have any desire to even look at a Buick. I'm 28 years old and more interested in performance than comfort, so I should be in Pontiac's market segment anyway. However, GM has some serious problems in its brands that I don't see a solution to in the near future. They have brands that they claim are targeted towards various segments, but they don't make them fit those segments. If they can't field a G6 that someone in my position would seriously consider, I don't see a future for Pontiac.
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Sep 28, 2008 3:52 pm)
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