Article Comments - 2009 VW Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4

67 messages, Last post on Oct 20, 2009 at 4:33 AM

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What is this discussion about? Volkswagen Tiguan, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Car Comparisons, SUV

2009 Volkswagen Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4 - So what's a utility-lovin' small family to do? Downsize. Full-size SUVs provide unmatched capability but their thirst may make you reassess your needs. Think compact utility vehicle. Think crossover. (more)

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#53 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [blueiedgod] by wwest Nov 07, 2008 (10:27 am)
Replying to: blueiedgod (Nov 06, 2008 10:46 am) "Driver error..." Not necessarily... Many F/AWD with TC, Traction Control, have ECU control firmware that INSTANTLY reacts to wheelspin/slip by BOTH applying braking to the slipping wheel(s), and simultaneously dethrottling the engine. Keep in mind that loss of traction on the front wheels due to engine torque is potentially DANGEROUS, moreso than loss of traction at the rear due to engine torque. So a vehicle with a design, or the ability, to have engine torque biased to the rear in these conditions will/might have more ability to delay dethrottling of the engine, say for a few hundred milliseconds. Driver skill, the LEARNED ability to "feather" the throttle just below the level of loss of traction definitely can have a "play" in these tests, but not so much so if the TC (and/or VSC) is QUICK to activate, as it will, MUST be, on most F/AWD vehicles.
#54 of 67 Re: also consider the tires [wwest] by kurtamaxxxguy Nov 07, 2008 (10:32 am)
Replying to: wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:11 am) Tread compound and siping can make a huge difference in how tires work in winter. TireRack did tests of the most recent winter tires and found that the studless versions using the latest compound technology worked better than studded tires using older tread compounds. However, I've auto socks available just in case the latest Nokian rubber's not up to ice. Auto Socks work fine as chain subsitutes, unless the snow is very deep at which point Chains are better. Replies to this message: wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:46 am) kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 07, 2008 1:31 pm) wwest (Nov 07, 2008 9:18 pm)
#55 of 67 Re: also consider the tires [kurtamaxxxguy] by wwest Nov 07, 2008 (10:46 am)
Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 07, 2008 10:32 am) Pretty selective testing, that...!!! But on the other hand the absolute BEST winter tread tires will never, can NEVER, outperform studded tires, even "slicks", treadless studded tires, in an icy surface, say a patch of black ice. But yes, absent penetration to an icy surface below studs are of little use on "loose" surfaces vs a good tread with enough "bite". That's exactly why my choice is best, summer tread tires for quiet and comfortable riding throughout the year, but no hesitation for throwing on a set of tire chains at the first indication of need, first at the rear, and then add the fronts if conditions warrant. Tire chains work well in BOTH circumstances. Replies to this message: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 07, 2008 1:31 pm) wwest (Nov 07, 2008 9:18 pm)
#56 of 67 Re: also consider the tires [wwest] by kurtamaxxxguy Nov 07, 2008 (1:31 pm)
Replying to: wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:46 am) Granted chains usually work if nothing else will in winter (I've used them).. However, a lot of cars these days specifically warn _not_ to use chains because there's no space between tire and wheelwells (use chains, tear the fenders apart). There are S and Z chains around that supposedly work in these cases. Then again, I see lots of "tuned" vehicles with 2+ dubbed summer tires that have absolutely no room for chains. In winter, those folks (like those sliders I saw last year) are probably SOL unless they switch to smaller winter tires that let them use chains as needed. Replies to this message: wwest (Nov 07, 2008 9:18 pm)
#57 of 67 Re: also consider the tires [kurtamaxxxguy] by wwest Nov 07, 2008 (9:18 pm)
Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 07, 2008 1:31 pm) While the RX, HL, and Sienna have enough room in the front for fitting the specified tire "chains", none of these have enough clearance at the rear. My RX has +1", 17X8 wheels, and 1.5" wheel spacers all around so tire chains can be used safely, rear first, and then the fronts for a truly exceptional circumstance. Tire sizes were selected such that the tire-wheel diameter remained the same as OEM.
#58 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [saramaddie] by stevedebi Nov 14, 2008 (2:11 pm)
Replying to: saramaddie (Nov 05, 2008 8:29 pm) "Thanks for the responses but I'm still not sure that my original question was answered. What about the typical driver (not trying to trick any system or disengage front or rear drives) on your basic snow or icy road (not off-road or climbing sand hills). " I owned a 2003 CR-V, which used the older RT4WD system, and I took a vacation to Yosemite in January. The roads were iced over, there was a major snowstorm going, and I saw a lot of cars slipping off the road. With careful driving I went the entire week without my chains, and without slipping. I also came out of Chaco Canyon NM after a major desert rainstorm had turned the roads to New Mexico Mud (if you've seen it, you know what I mean). I gunned the engine for about 20 miles and went through all sorts of stuff. I didn't slow down until I hit pavement, because the CR-V (and all part time systems) are not really meant for getting out of deep mud holes - and have no winch. All for wheels were spinning for 45 minutes, mud was all over the car (including the roof), everybody was scared out of their wits. Breathtaking, but I'd never do it again, with any vehicle. Both the above show that the CR-V can be used in difficult conditions, if you drive it to its strengths and not to its weaknesses. Having said that, you are not going to beat a Subaru full-time AWD system with limited slip differential. The Subie is going to have better traction. But the CR-V will also work if the driver is careful.
#59 of 67 Re: okay i guess [myphillyvw] by dieselbreath Nov 15, 2008 (10:05 am)
Replying to: myphillyvw (Sep 22, 2008 8:18 pm) "seems like the tiguan is the most fun to drive, has the nicest interior, and has more equipment but it loses because it's cost more??? isn't there a saying you get what you pay for? they didn't even mention the tiguans panoramic sunroof, dynaudio soundsytem, bi-xenon headlights with afs? i think it's a poor review IMO " Yeah, like "Let's make sure the VW loses based on price by adding features you can't even get in a Lexus!" The reviewer was too lazy to compare cars with the same features. If you load up a Toyota, you get a mid-range VW, but with less features and higher price. Hondas normally slot in between the other 2. When you factor in the greater accident survivability of a European vehicle, plus VW's higher re-sale (yes, VW beats even toyota on resale values) then the Tiguan is a no-brainer, but the reviewer also ignored those important features. Good information, but uneven comparison makes it lame overall. Replies to this message: guillegh (May 01, 2009 5:35 am)
#60 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv by d07 Nov 17, 2008 (11:32 am)
Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 06, 2008 7:32 am) You can turn off the traction control as well in the CRV by disengaging the VSA. The CRV was not meant to do any serious off-roading to begin with. It was one of the original soft roaders. I have been in 1.5 feet of snow and on slippery iced hills and have never been stuck (so far - phew!) with my 08 CRV. I don't think the front wheels spun even half a revolution before the back took over and push on. A Honda technician tried to explain to me that the wheel that slips is held by that particular brake and then power is transmitted to any of the 3 wheels which still have available grip in varying ratios (front to back). In tough circumstances where the vehicles is bogged down and traction control applies brakes to prevent wheel spin, pressing on the VSA button for one second, disengages the Traction Control as well and then you can apply the correction required to engage the rear wheels. The most important factor in any off- roader is the tires though. With city slick tires, even a Hummer or Jeep would bog down in a little puddle of mud. its amazing how few people talk of that fact. With studded tires, even a mini with proper suspension would climb up a reasonable mud slide. Replies to this message: wwest (Nov 19, 2008 2:35 pm) d07 (Nov 19, 2008 7:21 pm)
#61 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [d07] by wwest Nov 19, 2008 (2:35 pm)
Replying to: d07 (Nov 17, 2008 11:32 am) Tire studs will provide NO additional traction capability absent the ability to penetrate the loose surface and "bite" into the solid surface below, ice or whatever. Replies to this message: d07 (Nov 19, 2008 7:21 pm)
#62 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [wwest] by d07 Nov 19, 2008 (7:21 pm)
Replying to: wwest (Nov 19, 2008 2:35 pm) Tire studs will easily shed any buildup between treads and offer equivalent grip as chains (if the studs are metal to begin with - like in some ice rally cars) on a road whose surface has some give. For an extremely hard surface with no give at all - you would need rocket thrusters/ vented airflow of some sort as wheels would be useless - as would skis (blades would be great for this). So what you say is right. Fortunately every type of prepared or unprepared road or travel surface that a vehicle is intended for use on unless coated with an extremely thick surface of ice with no give, is extremely rare and NO one would or should attempt to ride on such surfaces anyway - so that is a moot point. A puddle of mud constitutes a surface which has some give and so a studded tire would work a zillion times better than one meant for a drive in city conditions. Just my 2 cents.