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SUVs Article Comments - 2009 VW Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4
67 messages, Last post on Oct 20, 2009 at 4:33 AM
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2009 Volkswagen Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4 - So what's a utility-lovin' small family to do? Downsize. Full-size SUVs provide unmatched capability but their thirst may make you reassess your needs. Think compact utility vehicle. Think crossover. (more)
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 03, 2008 1:27 pm) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki9ad5UCmwo shows CRV and Forester in action at Catalina Island. CR-V there never made it up the hill - kept sending all its power to the rear wheels rather than all 4. The Forester did occasionally get stuck, but usually made it. Driver error. Subaru driver maintains momentum through the whole ride. CR-V driver is babying his vehicle and hence gets stuck. Notice how much faster Subaru goes and jumps up and down on the hills to keep going. CR-V is just too cautios. Trust me, CR-V in capable hands is able to go many places. We were in Oshawa, ON abandoned pits a couple of years ago, and a 1999 CR-V had to pull Jeep Wrangler out. Wrangler driver was inexperienced and go stuck where CR-V just passed through.
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When trying to compare AWD it's also important to consider the tires. Ex: Youtube shows many a Subaru Outback go skidding sideways in winter, their AWD'ed stock Bridgstones useless on icy surfaces. The same car with decent winter tires will do much better. For winter conditions, one needs to either get winter tires or an All-season biased more for Winter (Nokian and Yokohama make those).
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Replying to: chiefbongo (Oct 08, 2008 2:57 am) Jimmy Drew |
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 06, 2008 10:53 am) Personally I run nice and quiet, comfortably riding, summer only tires all year around on my F/AWD '01 RX300. But do not hesitate to throw on a set of tire chains, REAR first, if conditions warrant. During the winter months I always have two set of chains on board.
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Replying to: blueiedgod (Nov 06, 2008 10:46 am) Not necessarily... Many F/AWD with TC, Traction Control, have ECU control firmware that INSTANTLY reacts to wheelspin/slip by BOTH applying braking to the slipping wheel(s), and simultaneously dethrottling the engine. Keep in mind that loss of traction on the front wheels due to engine torque is potentially DANGEROUS, moreso than loss of traction at the rear due to engine torque. So a vehicle with a design, or the ability, to have engine torque biased to the rear in these conditions will/might have more ability to delay dethrottling of the engine, say for a few hundred milliseconds. Driver skill, the LEARNED ability to "feather" the throttle just below the level of loss of traction definitely can have a "play" in these tests, but not so much so if the TC (and/or VSC) is QUICK to activate, as it will, MUST be, on most F/AWD vehicles. |
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Replying to: wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:11 am) TireRack did tests of the most recent winter tires and found that the studless versions using the latest compound technology worked better than studded tires using older tread compounds. However, I've auto socks available just in case the latest Nokian rubber's not up to ice. Auto Socks work fine as chain subsitutes, unless the snow is very deep at which point Chains are better.
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 07, 2008 10:32 am) But on the other hand the absolute BEST winter tread tires will never, can NEVER, outperform studded tires, even "slicks", treadless studded tires, in an icy surface, say a patch of black ice. But yes, absent penetration to an icy surface below studs are of little use on "loose" surfaces vs a good tread with enough "bite". That's exactly why my choice is best, summer tread tires for quiet and comfortable riding throughout the year, but no hesitation for throwing on a set of tire chains at the first indication of need, first at the rear, and then add the fronts if conditions warrant. Tire chains work well in BOTH circumstances.
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Replying to: wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:46 am)  However, a lot of cars these days specifically warn _not_ to use chains because there's no space between tire and wheelwells (use chains, tear the fenders apart). There are S and Z chains around that supposedly work in these cases. Then again, I see lots of "tuned" vehicles with 2+ dubbed summer tires that have absolutely no room for chains. In winter, those folks (like those sliders I saw last year) are probably SOL unless they switch to smaller winter tires that let them use chains as needed.
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 07, 2008 1:31 pm) My RX has +1", 17X8 wheels, and 1.5" wheel spacers all around so tire chains can be used safely, rear first, and then the fronts for a truly exceptional circumstance. Tire sizes were selected such that the tire-wheel diameter remained the same as OEM. |
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Replying to: saramaddie (Nov 05, 2008 8:29 pm) I owned a 2003 CR-V, which used the older RT4WD system, and I took a vacation to Yosemite in January. The roads were iced over, there was a major snowstorm going, and I saw a lot of cars slipping off the road. With careful driving I went the entire week without my chains, and without slipping. I also came out of Chaco Canyon NM after a major desert rainstorm had turned the roads to New Mexico Mud (if you've seen it, you know what I mean). I gunned the engine for about 20 miles and went through all sorts of stuff. I didn't slow down until I hit pavement, because the CR-V (and all part time systems) are not really meant for getting out of deep mud holes - and have no winch. All for wheels were spinning for 45 minutes, mud was all over the car (including the roof), everybody was scared out of their wits. Breathtaking, but I'd never do it again, with any vehicle. Both the above show that the CR-V can be used in difficult conditions, if you drive it to its strengths and not to its weaknesses. Having said that, you are not going to beat a Subaru full-time AWD system with limited slip differential. The Subie is going to have better traction. But the CR-V will also work if the driver is careful. |
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