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SUVs Article Comments - 2009 VW Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4
67 messages, Last post on Oct 20, 2009 at 4:33 AM
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2009 Volkswagen Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4 - So what's a utility-lovin' small family to do? Downsize. Full-size SUVs provide unmatched capability but their thirst may make you reassess your needs. Think compact utility vehicle. Think crossover. (more)
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Replying to: saramaddie (Nov 05, 2008 8:29 pm) The RAV4 allows you to lock the front and back diffs together at speeds up to 25 mph. Above that the system returns to automatic, waiting to detect wheel slip before sending power to rear. Neither CR-V nor Forester allow manual lock. Also, the RAV4 traction control system cuts power to engine if wheels continue spinning. I do not know if the CR-V does the same. In Forester, you have option of turning traction control off. What does this mean to average driver? Normally, nothing. In bad weather, at low speeds, RAV4'ers can lock their diffs to immediately get AWD up to speeds of 25 mph. If all 4 wheels spin, engine power is reduced. CR-V and Forester drivers have less options. Foresters can at least turn off Traction control.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 05, 2008 12:29 pm) Yes, the front wheels continue to turn at roadspeed but produce little or no "driving" torque. The SH-AWD system was only used as an example. Quite a few F/AWD vehicles use the rear driveline "overdrive" technique to "force" the rear wheels to take over more, or even a majority, of the torque distribution responsibility once the front wheels begin to lose traction. |
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Replying to: saramaddie (Nov 05, 2008 8:29 pm) Well, it goes back to basic driving skill. Driving on ice or any limited traction surface requires driver's constant attention to what the vehicle is doing, and honed skills. Generally, you only need AWD/4WD to get going in slippery surfaces. Once under way, you no longer need all 4 wheels to propell the vehicle. Hence the speed limitations imposed by manufacturer's on varyous AWD systems. In fact, having power to all 4 wheels in limited traction situation may even harm you. So, if you are on the highway chugging along at 60 mph and hit a patch of black ice... No AWD, ABS, EBD, VSA, GOD is going to save you. It is only up to you and what you have learned in your "annual foul weather training" that every one goes through with the first snow storm of the year. Most people will take their foot of the throttle and slam on the brakes, it is in their nature to do that. But, the ones who did their "annual foul weather training" will have already learned that it does not help. So, they calmly reduce the pressure on the accelerator, without any sudden moves. If the vehicle starts to skid, they turn into the skid and apply power to couter the skid. But, they are also prepared for the wheels to hit clear asphalt, as well. Too much sideways fun and clear asphalt may result in too much lateral vertical momentum and eventual roll over. So, basically, AWD, VSA, ABS, EBD are usefull tools, but it is still up to the driver to make all of the necessary corrections in the matter of split seconds. 
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 03, 2008 1:27 pm) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki9ad5UCmwo shows CRV and Forester in action at Catalina Island. CR-V there never made it up the hill - kept sending all its power to the rear wheels rather than all 4. The Forester did occasionally get stuck, but usually made it. Driver error. Subaru driver maintains momentum through the whole ride. CR-V driver is babying his vehicle and hence gets stuck. Notice how much faster Subaru goes and jumps up and down on the hills to keep going. CR-V is just too cautios. Trust me, CR-V in capable hands is able to go many places. We were in Oshawa, ON abandoned pits a couple of years ago, and a 1999 CR-V had to pull Jeep Wrangler out. Wrangler driver was inexperienced and go stuck where CR-V just passed through.
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When trying to compare AWD it's also important to consider the tires. Ex: Youtube shows many a Subaru Outback go skidding sideways in winter, their AWD'ed stock Bridgstones useless on icy surfaces. The same car with decent winter tires will do much better. For winter conditions, one needs to either get winter tires or an All-season biased more for Winter (Nokian and Yokohama make those).
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Replying to: chiefbongo (Oct 08, 2008 2:57 am) Jimmy Drew |
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 06, 2008 10:53 am) Personally I run nice and quiet, comfortably riding, summer only tires all year around on my F/AWD '01 RX300. But do not hesitate to throw on a set of tire chains, REAR first, if conditions warrant. During the winter months I always have two set of chains on board.
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Replying to: blueiedgod (Nov 06, 2008 10:46 am) Not necessarily... Many F/AWD with TC, Traction Control, have ECU control firmware that INSTANTLY reacts to wheelspin/slip by BOTH applying braking to the slipping wheel(s), and simultaneously dethrottling the engine. Keep in mind that loss of traction on the front wheels due to engine torque is potentially DANGEROUS, moreso than loss of traction at the rear due to engine torque. So a vehicle with a design, or the ability, to have engine torque biased to the rear in these conditions will/might have more ability to delay dethrottling of the engine, say for a few hundred milliseconds. Driver skill, the LEARNED ability to "feather" the throttle just below the level of loss of traction definitely can have a "play" in these tests, but not so much so if the TC (and/or VSC) is QUICK to activate, as it will, MUST be, on most F/AWD vehicles. |
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Replying to: wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:11 am) TireRack did tests of the most recent winter tires and found that the studless versions using the latest compound technology worked better than studded tires using older tread compounds. However, I've auto socks available just in case the latest Nokian rubber's not up to ice. Auto Socks work fine as chain subsitutes, unless the snow is very deep at which point Chains are better.
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Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 07, 2008 10:32 am) But on the other hand the absolute BEST winter tread tires will never, can NEVER, outperform studded tires, even "slicks", treadless studded tires, in an icy surface, say a patch of black ice. But yes, absent penetration to an icy surface below studs are of little use on "loose" surfaces vs a good tread with enough "bite". That's exactly why my choice is best, summer tread tires for quiet and comfortable riding throughout the year, but no hesitation for throwing on a set of tire chains at the first indication of need, first at the rear, and then add the fronts if conditions warrant. Tire chains work well in BOTH circumstances.
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