Article Comments - 2009 VW Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4

67 messages, Last post on Oct 20, 2009 at 4:33 AM

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What is this discussion about? Volkswagen Tiguan, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4, Car Comparisons, SUV

2009 Volkswagen Tiguan vs. 2008 Honda CR-V vs. 2008 Toyota RAV4 - So what's a utility-lovin' small family to do? Downsize. Full-size SUVs provide unmatched capability but their thirst may make you reassess your needs. Think compact utility vehicle. Think crossover. (more)

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#37 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [saramaddie] by kurtamaxxxguy Oct 30, 2008 (5:52 am)
Replying to: saramaddie (Oct 29, 2008 8:07 pm) Subaru did a comparison of AWD in 2006 and 2007, and the CRV's system, which has not changed much since then, was very weak at handling bad traction situations. When Toyota tested their RAV4 in Australia in 2006, the RAV4, asked to climb a sandy hill, simply parked itself. However, you can control Toyota differential locking and get 4WD up to around 25 mph, at which point it disengages and goes back to its mostly FWD-biased system. Audi , Land Rover, and VW use a Haldex system that is mostly FWD unless slippage is detected, at which point power goes to rear wheels. LR also has AWD presets to change the responsiveness and distribution of power. You can see more examples on Youtube. However, no AWD system will work if all your tires are on glare ice or otherwise no traction surfaces. There are Youtube videos showing Subaru Outbacks merrily sliding along Portland OR roads and crashing into other cars. Replies to this message: stevedebi (Oct 31, 2008 12:25 pm) kurtamaxxxguy (Oct 31, 2008 2:15 pm)
#38 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [kurtamaxxxguy] by stevedebi Oct 31, 2008 (12:25 pm)
Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Oct 30, 2008 5:52 am) "Subaru did a comparison of AWD in 2006 and 2007, and the CRV's system, which has not changed much since then, was very weak at handling bad traction situations." Honda changed the AWD system in 2007 for the Gen 3, I believe, so you are saying they did two different tests? Replies to this message: kurtamaxxxguy (Oct 31, 2008 2:15 pm)
#39 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [stevedebi] by kurtamaxxxguy Oct 31, 2008 (2:15 pm)
Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 31, 2008 12:25 pm) Apparently so. I remember seeing two different comparisons Subaru did. My understanding is Honda revised their system to be quicker in responding (gen 3), but perhaps its torque transfer has not changed? They also had a 2008 CR-V out on Catalina island climbing hills with the '09 Forester and others CUV's. The Subie video only showed the CR-V getting stuck halfway up, while the Forester XT, bounding about like mad, managed to get up the hill. However, the '09 Forester has a reputation of being slow to brake wheels that spin when they loose traction. This winter, I should find out just how slow The Forester also has no locking diffs nor side/side torque control other than the brakes to stop wheel spin. In any event, the CR-V's definitely better than no AWD at all. Perhaps somebody will do a broader comparison test of CUV's and, among other things, test them on bad roads and traction conditions to prove or disprove their claims.
#40 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [saramaddie] by blueiedgod Nov 03, 2008 (12:15 pm)
Replying to: saramaddie (Oct 29, 2008 8:07 pm) A skilled driver can easily trick CR-V's AWD system to go into oversteer to correct the inherent understeet typical of FWD platforms. With a locked 4WD system, all 4 wheels will just slide all over without providing that needed nudge in an extreme skid situation. Try to do this with 4WD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6qxbyUlRz4 Replies to this message: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 03, 2008 1:27 pm) stevedebi (Nov 04, 2008 11:27 am) wwest (Nov 05, 2008 8:55 am) and 2 more... blueiedgod (Nov 06, 2008 10:46 am) wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:27 am)
#41 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [blueiedgod] by kurtamaxxxguy Nov 03, 2008 (1:27 pm)
Replying to: blueiedgod (Nov 03, 2008 12:15 pm) Not bad - interesting how it sends power to either front or rear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki9ad5UCmwo shows CRV and Forester in action at Catalina Island. CR-V there never made it up the hill - kept sending all its power to the rear wheels rather than all 4. The Forester did occasionally get stuck, but usually made it. Replies to this message: stevedebi (Nov 04, 2008 11:27 am) wwest (Nov 05, 2008 8:55 am) stevedebi (Nov 05, 2008 12:29 pm) and 1 more... blueiedgod (Nov 06, 2008 10:46 am) wwest (Nov 07, 2008 10:27 am)
#42 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [kurtamaxxxguy] by stevedebi Nov 04, 2008 (11:27 am)
Replying to: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 03, 2008 1:27 pm) "CR-V there never made it up the hill - kept sending all its power to the rear wheels rather than all 4." It may have LOOKED that way, but so far as I know the CR-V does not have the capability to shut off the front wheel drive - only to add power to the rear wheels. It is more likely that the Subie split rear differential had more to do with traction. I think that they have SD back there... Replies to this message: wwest (Nov 05, 2008 8:55 am) stevedebi (Nov 05, 2008 12:29 pm) wwest (Nov 06, 2008 7:55 am)
#43 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [stevedebi] by wwest Nov 05, 2008 (8:55 am)
Replying to: stevedebi (Nov 04, 2008 11:27 am) If the rear driveline is overdriven slightly, as in the SH-AWD system, then firmly engaging the rear drive will effectively result in no front "drive". Replies to this message: stevedebi (Nov 05, 2008 12:29 pm) wwest (Nov 06, 2008 7:55 am)
#44 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [wwest] by stevedebi Nov 05, 2008 (12:29 pm)
Replying to: wwest (Nov 05, 2008 8:55 am) "If the rear driveline is overdriven slightly, as in the SH-AWD system, then firmly engaging the rear drive will effectively result in no front "drive". " I seem to recall that only the Acuras have the SH-AWD... and I regardless of how it is phrased, the front wheels are still turning - there is never a time when they don't move. Replies to this message: wwest (Nov 06, 2008 7:55 am)
#45 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [saramaddie] by saramaddie Nov 05, 2008 (8:29 pm)
Replying to: saramaddie (Oct 29, 2008 8:07 pm) Thanks for the responses but I'm still not sure that my original question was answered. What about the typical driver (not trying to trick any system or disengage front or rear drives) on your basic snow or icy road (not off-road or climbing sand hills). Replies to this message: kurtamaxxxguy (Nov 06, 2008 7:32 am) d07 (Nov 17, 2008 11:32 am) wwest (Nov 19, 2008 2:35 pm) and 1 more... blueiedgod (Nov 06, 2008 10:39 am) stevedebi (Nov 14, 2008 2:11 pm)
#46 of 67 Re: awd comparison between rav4 and crv [saramaddie] by kurtamaxxxguy Nov 06, 2008 (7:32 am)
Replying to: saramaddie (Nov 05, 2008 8:29 pm) Youtube has a number of videos showing CR-V's characteristics in snow or on hills. Ditto for Forester and RAV4. The RAV4 allows you to lock the front and back diffs together at speeds up to 25 mph. Above that the system returns to automatic, waiting to detect wheel slip before sending power to rear. Neither CR-V nor Forester allow manual lock. Also, the RAV4 traction control system cuts power to engine if wheels continue spinning. I do not know if the CR-V does the same. In Forester, you have option of turning traction control off. What does this mean to average driver? Normally, nothing. In bad weather, at low speeds, RAV4'ers can lock their diffs to immediately get AWD up to speeds of 25 mph. If all 4 wheels spin, engine power is reduced. CR-V and Forester drivers have less options. Foresters can at least turn off Traction control. Replies to this message: d07 (Nov 17, 2008 11:32 am) wwest (Nov 19, 2008 2:35 pm) d07 (Nov 19, 2008 7:21 pm)