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Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 12:31 pm) They gave him a raise over what he was making here in San Diego. Plus he only drives 4 miles to work and rent is half of what he paid here for a lot bigger apartment. Taxes are cheaper and so is gas and utilities. I think he was making $45k a year here as an IT person.
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 6:21 pm) So you complain that the Japanese market is closed, but then you say why bother designing for it? That's no way to get into a market if there is really some interest. Which there isn't. It's just a smokescreen by the UAW to hide from all the mistakes made in this country. What ever happened to accountability? Let the D3 fail if they cannot be competitive, or better yet, downsize to a competitive position and then they might get serious about making world-class products. That's why a loan to the D3 is a huge mistake. Dump the lousy vehicles (perhaps 50% of the total) that are just propping up all the underutilized facilities and perhaps they can focus on excellent products again. I'd rather see a 15% market share of the D3 which is climbing, with a position of strength brought on by excellent vehicles, than a 30% market share where the patients are gasping for air and digging into our wallets for our money while they ride on corporate jets.
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Replying to: kernick (Nov 27, 2008 1:27 pm) I would say GM should do what Hyundai did to build confidence. Give 10 year 100k mile warranty on the cars they think will last that long. If GM does not have as much confidence in their cars longevity as Hyundai, why should the consumer?
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Replying to: tlong (Nov 27, 2008 6:24 pm) Wagoner may actually be more correct than we think. Remember, the Jap big 3's profits are all way down, as they are selling less cars as well, and what they are selling are their smaller, less profitable cars. So aren't the Big 3. It's just that their losses go from being manageable to out of control. Take this paragraph from Sebastian Mallaby of the Wash. Post as an example: "The financial crisis has morphed into several simultaneous crises that feed upon each other. The real-estate bust crippled the banks. Crippled banks starved companies of credit. Starved companies laid off workers. Laid-off workers defaulted on mortgages, deepening the bust in real estate. By a similar process, crippled financial institutions stopped making auto loans, which caused people to stop buying cars, which pushed the carmakers to the brink. If the carmakers go down, a whole new round of job losses and mortgage defaults will slam into the financial system." It may sound arrogant, and I STILL do believe that more needs to be done than just a "bridge loan", but Wagoner may be closer to the truth that we think.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 27, 2008 6:48 pm) |
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Replying to: tlong (Nov 27, 2008 6:38 pm) I'm NOT saying why bother designing for it, as the models I mentioned beforehand that you (and I) would like to see here are ALREADY DESIGNED FOR IT!!!!!!! The UAW has NOTHING to do with that, as those cars are built OUTSIDE the US, and would be destined for JAPAN. My point is that 2 of the 3 companies DO have cars that could be sold there in significant quantities, but aren't, because the Japanese government doesn't want them there, and NOT because they arent good enough to be there.
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Replying to: gagrice (Nov 27, 2008 6:35 pm) (BTW, as you know I wouldn't endorse that)
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 6:48 pm) Well they aren't going to fail as a Group, meaning at the same time. That then means that the first to go down, will benefit the other 2 left. If McDonald's closes, Burger King and Wendy's and Taco Bell gets their business. So if GM closes, I see Ford and Chrysler will become profitable. The suppliers to GM will simply stop pouring plastic in their molds for GM, and use the molds for Chrysler and Ford more. There is probably not any net-loss of business. The same number of cars will be made and sold if GM goes out of business tomorrow. Remember that "the truth" you are hearing is biased. It is biased $25B worth. If someone is dangling $25B out there to me and my 2 friends, you're darn tooting I'm going to spin you a good tale that you can't do without me. If you believe you can trust these guys when they have $25B to gain, well there's little hope. 
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Nov 27, 2008 7:04 pm) He had me to advise him. Some of the employees were told if they moved to Indiana they could have their jobs at a reduced rate. Tom was in a unique position and I advised him to get at least a years contract to move to Indiana. In this case you are asking some one to leave paradise and move to the Midwest. C'mon you know that should get a big raise. He only got 5% more but it was more than enough to give them a much higher standard of living in a small town with not so great weather. My daughter was an escrow officer and has switched to foreclosures. They were happy to keep her on and she works from home. I do miss having them around. With gas so cheap we may cruise back this winter for a visit.
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Replying to: kernick (Nov 27, 2008 7:18 pm) That is exactly how I see it. There will be no need for a bailout. Ford and Chrysler were not the ones instigating it. They just wanted a piece of the bailout pie. GM will have to sell their assets to pay off the retirees. Ford can buy Corvette and let the rest turn to rust. |
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