Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Replying to: driver100 (Nov 26, 2008 7:21 am) Could they shut down in the US, continue operating overseas, and then a few years later return to the US? I wonder if they could start fresh without UAW contracts if they "cleaned up" in this way, or if they would still have contractual obligations? Of course none of this matters if they go BK anyway. |
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 26, 2008 5:31 am) The minivan business might fit into Ford or it might just as well disappear. |
|
|
Replying to: steve_ (Nov 26, 2008 8:37 am) Honda, Toyota and Nissan made a conscious decision to keep their luxury brands separate from their mainstream brands so as not to dilute the luxury image. How many ES owners would have paid the extra dollars if they thought they were getting a gussied up Camry?
|
|
|
Replying to: lmacmil (Nov 26, 2008 9:32 am) How closely do you want the loan stings to tie Ford or GM to consolidating their luxury brands with the rest of their offerings?
|
|
|
Replying to: nippononly (Nov 25, 2008 3:25 pm) It would be interesting to see the hourly rate of all the different types of employee positions at GM, Ford, Chyrsler - high, middle, low level management, engineers, accountants, assembly line, etc. On a spreadsheet. Beside the flat hourly rate, (all salaried gets converted to hourly), also see the total rate with all benefits. Congress should have access to all of these details before a bailout/loan. Every single employee should "first" be willing to adjust their compensation to lower than Honda/Toyota as part of their commitment to help their company before Congress gives any loan. When/if these companies start to be profitable, then compensation can be adusted upward accordingly.
|
|
|
Replying to: grbeck (Nov 26, 2008 9:05 am) This was a clever marketing tool when first invented. Chevy owners would move up to an Olds, Pontiac owners could move up to Buick, Ford owners going upscale could get a Mercury and eventually a Lincoln. Today the idea is dead for the Big 3, but there are dealers that have contracts, and you just can't decide to drop a line of cars, without compensating the dealers selling that line. Cost GM a lot to get rid of Oldsmobile. So, we can say the Big 3 should have fewer nameplates, but it is easier said than done. They could also close down 2/3rds of their dealers, but can't for the same reason.....Chapter 11 is looking better all the time! |
|
|
Replying to: grbeck (Nov 26, 2008 7:57 am) Problem is that upscale buyers will expect more attention than an ordinary Ford dealer might provide. Could a Ford dealer compete in customer satisfaction with a Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, BMW, etc dealer? Would a present owner of a Lexus ES350 consider a Lincoln brand if he/she had to go to a Ford dealer for service? |
|
|
Replying to: kernick (Nov 26, 2008 7:21 am) You're the optimist if you think that approach would work. The Unions don't care, their mission is to bring management to their knees, always. Suppliers are already on the skids and can't reduce prices any more. Banks, contrary to what Congress will tell you (like they actually understand anything) are under pressure from both the Government and their stockholders to "resolve" their bad loans, which usually does not mean working with anybody, it means foreclose. The only solution is Bankruptcy and reorganization in a painful way - they cannot go on like they are and succeed. The situation is grave indeed.
|
|
|
"GM spends an average $72 an hour on labor, including wages, health benefits and pensions. Non-union Toyota plants spend $42 an hour. Toyota hasn't been building cars here long enough to be stuck with the hospital bills of nonagenarian retirees. The company has plenty of elderly veterans back home -- the Japanese are the longest-lived people in the world -- but guess who pays for healthcare in Japan? The Japanese government. As a result of providing its workers with health benefits that everyone in this country should be getting, American automakers pay over $2,000 more in labor costs on every car they make. The best way to overcome a nut like that is to build big vehicles that you can sell for a big profit. Were Detroit automakers shortsighted? Absolutely. As shortsighted as a 21-year-old who drops out of engineering school and takes a job in a warehouse to support his ailing parents. American automakers sacrificed innovation to keep building SUVs and trucks that would pay their legacy costs right away." Detroit isn't dead yet (Slate - sometimes the link flakes out to the premium version) |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: grbeck (Nov 26, 2008 7:49 am) Your statement is copied below. "Inflation occurs when too much money is chasing the same number of goods. So much wealth has evaporated over the past year that these injections of cash won't replace it." "Do your favor..." the topic. Why not, it doesn't matter. What killed the trucks that Detroit was counting on for cash to turn around their businesses-oil speculation as exposed by Ed Wallace and recognized globally. Historic view over the fullness of time about what's happening. Expanding your example, too much money (printing presses running day and night) chasing too few goods (production down, prices dropping to clear old inventory to change a payable liability with a credit to cash). On the h3 forum some time back posted how much is that puppy in the window, dried vacuum packed figs, jars of pickled okra, or a wheelbarrow of green paper. Who is manipulating the economies and why. Where did the trillions go. To China (holds one trillion of our paper) for our consumptive society. Maybe econuts and treehuggers are somewhat correct. Wish I could remember the Friday? night PBS show here that quoted a lady in India? that stated quality growth and the enrichment of life for all can be had without destruction of the planet. Years ago I use to say, aggressive europeans came here, took and plundered this country. American natives lived her for a long time (yes, they probably had tribal wars) and left us clean water and deep rich prairie soil (which we let blow away). Americans were told to consume to keep the consumptive society going but at the same time the unions and working classes were being sent further down the ladder, why. Then borrowed money was used to keep the illusion alive. So, a loan, a gift, it is only green paper and if hyper-inflation follows this deflation? then cheap wheelbarrow loads can be used to return the green unless the green chits have to be exchanged for the new amero chits or is that soylent green. |
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
