Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
3958 messages, Last post on Oct 02, 2009 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
Replying to: iluvmysephia1 (Nov 25, 2008 10:32 am) 1) AIG bailout was Bush's idea. 2) Letting the Big 3 fail was Bush's idea (although I know the Big 3 helped him get elected, but this is one area he should break his promises and give them the middle finger like the rest of Americans outside of MI. We could have a Gov't run manufacturing base and It coudln't POSSIBLY be any WORSE than the Big 3. forget the Big 3! Hasta la Vista baby! (in the words of a Republican governor in CA) 3) Bear Stearns bailout was Bush's idea And so on and so forth. Obama doesn't have to take any of the blame for anything that happens prior to Jan 20th in 2009 in my opinion. Bush can take all of the credit (blame?) for what he's done during his term in office. And my 2 cents is that no one should have been given a bailout, not AIG, not the banks, not the financial institutions, NO ONE. |
|
|
Replying to: imidazol97 (Nov 24, 2008 2:12 pm)
|
|
|
|
|
Think about your past reactions to the situations you were presented-like a rat in a maze who was given an open doorway..to a hatchet. What has happened in the last eight or more years. Concentration of wealth for some individuals and their entities. Did you get yours. they get yours, take a tax deduction, and get richer next year. While the fear is now deflation, how does keeping the printing presses working overtime not produce a debased currency and hyper-inflation or just ...
|
|
|
Replying to: kernick (Nov 25, 2008 7:42 am) 1. Unemployment at Bush pre-re-election was 5.5%, now it is 6.2%. BFD. 2. Sunbelt Homes tripled in value and then fell back to now being doubled in value. Lots more equity there now than in 2004. 3. Americans have cut gas consumption by healthy margins and have a more fuel efficient fleet than ever 4. Many people I know have their income up considerably under Bush and yet don't pay much more in taxes. 5. American auto industry still suffering the effects of subsidized foreign competition, especially since NAFTA, which is governed unfairly. 6. Productivity and competitiveness VS the rest of the word is at near record levels. 7. Interest rates are very low. I see the disaster as a media/politically incited loss of confidence paid for by the DNC. All they really have to do is look at the glass as half full. Stocks are based on confidence. They didn't mean for it to work as well as it did to tear Bush down. They also didn't see the $4 gas thing, which gave it too much extra push. 3 million people a year are added to the population of America, and for the most part, we live a first world life with cars and houses with electricity. Are there any IPOD, pay tv, or cell phone deprivations out there? All that growth is seen as a tremendous market by the rest of the world. This -4 M cars per year won't last.
|
|
|
Replying to: dave8697 (Nov 25, 2008 2:11 pm) 2. Sunbelt Homes tripled in value and then fell back to now being doubled in value. Lots more equity there now than in 2004. 3. Americans have cut gas consumption by healthy margins and have a more fuel efficient fleet than ever 4. Many people I know have their income up considerably under Bush and yet don't pay much more in taxes. 5. American auto industry still suffering the effects of subsidized foreign competition, especially since NAFTA, which is governed unfairly. 6. Productivity and competitiveness VS the rest of the word is at near record levels. 7. Interest rates are very low. 1. What does BFD stand for? Why use 2004 rates rather than 2000 when Bush was elected? Suspicious!!!!! 2. Homes only increased in value because banks held interest rates artificially low. 3. Gas consumption was cut but gas expenditure is way up!!! 4. While taxes haven't gone up for many, the only people who have had incomes rise are in the top 1%. 99% of the population has had income completely stagnant for 8 years (when considering true inflation). 5. No subsidies exist for Foreign automakers; this is false. 6. Based on what? 7. Interest rates are low, but inflation is sky high!!!
|
|
|
Replying to: andres3 (Nov 25, 2008 2:35 pm) Finger pointing is one thing, but we're asking if you favor a bailout in here. |
|
|
|
|
about domestically made vehicles are beginning to surface in here, eh? They are really coming out of the woodwork now. But in a sense this discussion is not even about what the domestics have done in the past. It is about whether there is any way in which they could totally remake themselves in order to be globally competitive. And whether they could do so fast enough. There ARE good arguments for subsidizing a domestic manufacturing concern, as much of the world does. And as manufacturing concerns go, automobiles is a big one. I still say the bankruptcy court is the only way these companies can effect the needed changes quickly enough. It should be possible to support them on the back end, as they emerge from this reorganization. THAT would be money well spent. I guess what I am saying is, their current slow spiral to death guarantees the death at the end. They need to make a sudden and dramatic set of changes all at once to ensure their future. So, bankruptcy now, bailout money later when it can really help. I no longer believe that GM's turnaround plan, as a for instance, would produce any profits for them before the middle of the next decade, and that's too far away to be useful. The other two are pretty much in the same boat with their turnaround plans. I saw in a headline that Gettelfinger is beginning to see sense, and one of the first concessions the UAW might be willing to make is the elimination of the Jobs Bank. Well yeah Ron, that's the big "DUH!". What else have you got? If all the people involved would just see sense, accept reality, and reduce their compensations and benefits to industry norms (including executives), 2 of the domestics would probably be OK without either a bankruptcy OR a bailout. GM would still be in trouble because of excessive dealers and brands - harder to eliminate. Use a fraction of the bailout money to kill 4000 or 5000 GM dealers and about four brands (Oldsmobile cost, what, a billion $?), and GM could be in very good shape with the other items in place that I mentioned above. |
|
|
Replying to: nippononly (Nov 25, 2008 3:25 pm) My biggest fear is that the Congress will end up giving the bailout money without strong enough concessions/restructuring, and our tax money goes down the drain with Detroit 3 failures just postponed 6-12 months.
|
|
|
Replying to: nippononly (Nov 25, 2008 3:25 pm) I think that Chrysler should be excluded from any bailout monies. It is essentially DOA right now and there is nothing in the product line which suggests that it has any future. A couple of Jeep nameplates and very reduced minivan & RAM volumes are the only assets of any value IMO. It will be a shame that the Cummins franchise will have to go away. GM has several potentially good assets that can make money when freeded from its 20th Century labor mistakes. Cadillac is worthwhile in NA. Silverado is solid but it has to be stuctured to be profitable in reduced volumes. The lambda crossovers are solid but 4 is too many The Malibu is very competitive, it needs to be grown. The Corvette. The 2-Mode hybrids are every bit as good as the other three players if only they had been brought to market 5 yrs earlier. The Volt and the E-Flex technology needs to be kept in order to help advance us into the next decade. The Aveo is very mediocre but it does serve a purpose. It needs to be updated soon. The Cruze from Europe and Asia needs to replace the Cobalt yesterday. The HHR serves a good purpose. OTOH all the following should be killed off... all BOF SUVs big and midsized; ditto the ColoCanyon; ditto GMC, Buick in NA, Pontiac, Saab and Saturn franchises; GM's market share gets cut to 17-18% but it's a solid profitable segment that can make $Billions with the proper controls. Ford IMO is best positioned but it too has dead limbs that need pruning namely Lincoln and Mercury and all the dealers associated with them. The Ford name should be the sole focus. It's solid profitable assets that are worth keeping in NA are.. ..the F-Series trucks obviously but in much reduced volume; ..the Edge and the Escape...both should have hybrid options ..the Fusion with its hybrid option ..the Eco-boost technology for the future ..the Mustang ..The Focus or whichever Euro-model replaces it. ..Volvo possibly Ford's marketshare gets cut to 7-8% but this too is rock solid. Flexible work rules or an actual non-union workplace may be a necessity for both of them.
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 24, 2008 5:28 pm) wow you sure took a huge loss on that that GMC, $3000. Just out of curiosity how much do you think your sequoia would be worth now? do you think you would only lose $3000 on that gas pig?
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
