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Do You Favor A Government Loan To The Detroit 3?

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#811 of 3958 Re: Why does GM deserve a chance to survive?... [American_Eagle] by gagrice Nov 25, 2008 (9:16 am)
Replying to: American_Eagle (Nov 25, 2008 8:56 am) Welcome to the Forum.   Accounts for $690 billion, or about 20% of all U.S. retail sales   GM only accounts for about $150 billion so the others can pick up their share.   Those are all nice statistics about GM. You left out the most important one. GM lost $72 BILLION over the last 4 years. They have NO PLAN to pull out of that kind of loss. GM lost money the year Toyota had their most profit EVER. If GM could not make money in 2004-2006. How can they make money when the economy is in the toilet? Why prolong the agony and throw away your children's future?
#812 of 3958 Re: Is Nissan Next? [nippononly] by gagrice Nov 25, 2008 (9:22 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Nov 25, 2008 9:14 am) I would think emotions in those cities may be running high with the Big 3 headed for bankruptcy. They may not want to rub their superior vehicles in the face of the workers. Especially in Detroit.
#813 of 3958 Yes, let them all go down in Flames by andres3 Nov 25, 2008 (9:23 am)
I like cold hard blue Capatalism, whatever that means. I don't find Capitalism to be cruel, only fair and just.   I have written off my fair share of companies due to poor customer service or poor product buying experiences. Here are all of the companies I've written off for years now:   1) Chrysler (1995 Vehicle purchased in 1994.... probably wrote them off around 4 years later as I had tremendous warranty costs right after the 3 year 36K mile mark, and although I had a lot of warranty visits the first 3 years, I didn't write them off until the problems increased EXPONENTIALLY after warranty expiration; thanks Chrysler engineers; you got it JUST RIGHT with a perfect design to fail like clockwork AFTER the warranty expired. Good job, your design timing was better than Rolex! (Will go bankrupt in 2009 without 3rd bailout!) 2) Ford (guilty by association with Big 3) (Will go bankrupt in 2010 w/o bailout #2)? 3) GM (guilty by association with Big 3) Will go bankrupt by Xmas w/o bailout #2)? 4) AT&T (thriving despite being on the top 10 WORST lists of customer service) 5) Circuit City (Filed for Bankruptcy recently; good riddance! middle finger is appropriate to their workers!) 6) Best Buy (Thriving despite terrible Customer Service reviews; probably because Good Guys, Tweeter, and others have gone out of business first). 7) Insurance Agent: Eastwood Insurance (criminals) 8) Insurance Company: Bristol West (criminals) 9) Insurance Underwriter: Coast National Insurance (associated with above)   Based on the list above, I think I have a good knack for hating/avoiding/writing-off companies that are doomed to fail. Inevitable failure; just a matter of time. Oh yeah, Bank of America almost made the list above, but they did finally settle after a few letters going up the chain.   Companies that honored their product by honoring warranties, contracts, terms, and conditions, and even display exemplary service by extending warranties when needed; free of charge; demonstrated a willingness to care about retaining a customer: (I'd DEFINITELY BUY from these companies again).   1) Honda (thriving) 2) Sony (but they have 1 strike; still good). 3) Audi (best car to date in every way) 4) Kenwood (fixed my car stereo 6 months after warranty expired) 5) Mercury Insurance (pays out on claims; what a novelty for an insurance company). 6) Cox Cable (good phone and cable service, good customer service, but is getting pricey!) 7) Toyota (based on relatives and friends' insanely reliable experiences) 8) Crutchfield Electronics Replies to this message: rogeliov (Nov 25, 2008 9:57 am)
#814 of 3958 Re: Is Nissan Next? [nippononly] by berri Nov 25, 2008 (9:26 am)
Replying to: nippononly (Nov 25, 2008 9:14 am) Get outside of the city and you'll see a lot of imports and large import dealers. If its not a financial thing, I think it is dumb marketing. Not appearing at two large shows sort of makes them look like they are admiting they are an also ran, not in the same league as Toyota and Honda. I mean how much does it cost to put up some signs and some cars on the floor? I know the media makes the midwest look like it is in dire shape, but the reality is there are a lot of there who are working and buy cars. I don't think it is smart marketing to snub any geographic area when you are a national marketer. I was in Des Moines and amazed at all of the people at restaurannts on a weekday night and by all of the newer cars in the parking lots. I think that, like the south, housing is a lot less expensive than on the coasts, so they have a lot more discretionary income in their pockets. Maybe Nissan is just a cheap company? I wonder where else they are skimping for a few nickels and dimes?
#815 of 3958 Re: Why does GM deserve a chance to survive?... [American_Eagle] by dieselone Nov 25, 2008 (9:28 am)
Replying to: American_Eagle (Nov 25, 2008 8:56 am) GM’s Contribution to the U.S. Economy • Directly employs approximately 96,000 people • Has 6,500 dealers across the country who employ another 340,000 people • Provides pension benefits for nearly 475,000 retirees and spouses • Extends health care benefits to about 1,000,000 people   Above are the reasons GM is broke. They don't have the market share nor the gross profit margins to support those numbers.   The answer is easy, the formula to get there is not.   I really don't care what percentage of GDP GM sales are or how many jobs will be lost if they close up. Like Gagrice said, GM has lost billions upon billions. They have to have a plan that allows GM to earn a profit when U.S. sales are going to stay in the 10-12 million range for the foreseeable future.
#816 of 3958 Re: I tell ya what! [lemko] by circlew Nov 25, 2008 (9:47 am)
Replying to: lemko (Nov 25, 2008 6:08 am) If GM doesn't get a bailout - NOBODY SHOULD!!! Not Citi, not AIG, not ANYBODY!!! Let 'em all go down in flames! You want cold hard cruel capitalism? Let the market decide!   Finally! Agreed! No money to the Big 3 then! It's FINAL!   Regards, OW
#817 of 3958 Re: Car Pool to Washington [lemko] by circlew Nov 25, 2008 (9:50 am)
Replying to: lemko (Nov 25, 2008 6:23 am) Yea, I guess if they reduced their compensation to $1 in 2009, the CEO's would be viewed as below the poverty line!   Regards, OW
#818 of 3958 Re: Yes, let them all go down in Flames [andres3] by rogeliov Nov 25, 2008 (9:57 am)
Replying to: andres3 (Nov 25, 2008 9:23 am) Andres, I have quite a few of the same on my list.   I despise: 1. Circuit city for what they did to their experienced employees a few years ago. Fired them, hired greenpeas, offered jobs to the older folks at reduced wages. Hmmpf! I have never bought anything there since that happened. I feel bad for the employees that were let go. This accounted for nothing more than age discrimination if you ask me. Looks like they are about to close a bunch of stores. Serves them right. 2 At$t horrible customer service. Charged me phone and internet service in a residence I no longer occupied even after I called to cancel service one month prior to moving. One year of money down the drain taken by those thieves. 3. GM, mom had a 67 Chevy Nova. Worst POS we've ever owned. Would die in the middle of traffic, smoked like a chimney, and was never fixed. She ended up trading it on a Ford Galaxie 500.   The good: 1. Sony. Had one bad experience with a store but not Sony's fault. Sony stepped up to repair tv after I wrote to Sony USA president. Came home and picked up tv, fixed and been happy as a pig in slop after numerous Sony products. 2. Nissan, Honda, Toyota, not necessarily in that order. All three brands have given us excellent service. Most have over 150k miles and still going. 3. Directv, great service. It's a GM owned company but you wouldn't know. 4. Crutchfield, I'm with you on this one. I've been a loyal customer of them for over 20 years. Their products may be more expensive than the rest of the bunch but their service and tech support is second to none.   No loan for them.
#819 of 3958 Re: Sales not going UP anytime soon [gagrice] by andres3 Nov 25, 2008 (10:10 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Nov 25, 2008 6:21 am) I feel bad for those that bought GM stock at $75 and now it is worth about $3.50.   I don't feel bad for them. Investing in GM in the last 30 years was crazy and stupid to begin with, but this is just insane:   After your investment falls 33% or more, they should have jumped ship and sold at $50 a share if they bought at $75/share. It's called cut your losses and RUN.   Holding onto a bad investment that can only get worse is insane, and I don't feel sorry for insanely idiotic people.   How about selling at 25 a share and accepting 66% loss? Now they have to sell at 0.01 or I'm not buying!
#820 of 3958 I don't hate GM, Ford and Chrysler... by iluvmysephia1 Nov 25, 2008 (10:18 am)
I just feel that they don't have my best interests at heart. Their cars are dull and uninviting. The new 2010 Ford Fiesta offers more but not enough as the 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore B0 does. Plus, the B0 watches out for the environment, looks cool, re-charges automatically with regenerative braking and from solar panels on the roof and grille. Cool technology. Chev feels they have to up the ante on the Volt and charge $40,000+.   Right.

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